55. Cultivating Resiliency with Jazz Bynum

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00:00
Jazz Bynum
While I was in college, I had started a support group for just dancers that were getting injured, because at that point, there were just a ton of us that were injured. And for me, it was the first time that I was injured and away from home, and I had to set the doctor's appointment, schedule my surgery, just like, all these things. And I was like, I'm 20, and I'm trying to figure out how to do major surgery without my mom there. I mean, she came up and took care of me after, but it was a huge thing to have to navigate and not be home. 

00:42
Jennifer Milner
Back to the Bendy Bodies podcast, where we strive to improve well being, enhance performance, and optimize career longevity for every Bendy body. This is co host Jennifer Milner, here with the hypermobility MD linda Bluestein. 

00:57
Dr. Linda Bluestein
We are so glad that you are here to learn tips for living your best Bendy life. This information is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice. 

01:06
Jennifer Milner
Our guest today is Jazz Bynum, professional ballet dancer with Ballet West. Jazz. Hello, and welcome to Bendy Bodies. 

01:14
Jazz Bynum
Hello. Thank you so much for having me. 

01:17
Jennifer Milner
We are very excited to have you today and to get to know you better. 

01:23
Dr. Linda Bluestein
Most definitely. 

01:25
Jennifer Milner
So before we go into sort of the area that we want to talk about today, could you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? 

01:33
Jazz Bynum
Yes. So currently, I'm a artist with ballet west. I'm going into my second season in the main company, but I've been here for about four years. I'm originally from Jersey slash Maryland, where my family is from. Mostly grew up in Maryland, did my training at Maryland Youth Ballet and Fancy of Harlem when they had their residency program at the Kennedy Center. And then from there, I got my BFA in Contemporary Performance with an emphasis in ballet from Boston Conservatory and back to here. 

02:10
Jennifer Milner
So how long have you been dancing with Ballet West? 

02:12
Jazz Bynum
This will make one to my fifth year here. I did one year as a trainee, two years in Ballet West, two. Last year was my first season as an apprentice, and then this is my second season. 

02:24
Dr. Linda Bluestein
Excellent. 

02:25
Jennifer Milner
I think that it's great for our younger artists to hear that you are feeling some longevity at a company, because it's been a really difficult time with the pandemic and people who are trying to make that transition from pre professional to professional. It can feel a little hopeless and sort of jumping all over the place. So that's great that you have been able to be in one spot for a while. That's fantastic. So one of the things that you mentioned on your Instagram page is that you have hypermobile Ehlers Danlow syndrome. So before you received that diagnosis, did you notice anything different about the way you needed to train or even recover as a dancer versus your non Bendy friends? 

03:07
Jazz Bynum
I don't know if I noticed anything drastic because of my hypermobility. I felt there was always like a struggle to be able to use my full range of motion with teachers because so many different instructors have different ideas about how to train hypermobility, whether to use hypermobility or not. And so kind of felt a struggle there in terms of just learning how to understand my body and how far I could push. I definitely got injured a lot more frequently, but again, it was just something that I don't know, I thought it was a kid that got injured. And I had a lot of other GI symptoms that kind of led me to the Eds place as far as my physical body and injuries and things that all didn't really tie in together until the actual diagnosis. 

04:04
Jennifer Milner
Well, that's something that we hear very commonly. There's no one very straight path to getting a diagnosis. And so many times that when you do finally get that diagnosis, there's that, oh, that's why, like you said, you look back and you think, well, I was just a kid that got injured all the time, or I was the clumsy kid, or I was just a kid who had GI issues. And then all of a sudden it sort of ties all together and you go, oh no, okay, there's a bigger issue that's been going on. So if the bendiness sort of wasn't the thing that led you to getting a diagnosis, but it was other GI issues, right, and things like that kind of led to that diagnosis. Well, how has a diagnosis changed how you seek and receive treatment as a dancer for your musculoskeletal issues? 

04:56
Jazz Bynum
So now there are a bunch of specialists that I keep up with and make sure that all my systems are functioning properly. But then when it comes to finding a doctor or finding a surgeon, I'm always looking for a doctor that is either familiar with HEDs or specializes in it, and also is familiar or specializes with dancers because that care makes a huge difference in terms of prognosis. Like even almost a year ago, eleven months now almost eleven months, ten and a half months. I tore my ACL in my meniscus for the third time. And then this time, when were looking at doctors, I was like, okay, I need to find a surgeon who knows about ATDS. Because then in doing my own research, I found that they, I think it was like, five or six years ago, created a slightly different ACL repair for HEDs patients that changes the retare rate from 40% to 4%, which is, like a massive wow. 

06:01
Jazz Bynum
And I was like, okay, I need a surgeon who either thinks that they can do this or knows how to do this. And so then I was able to find a doctor who not only specializes with hypermobility, but also has done the procedure before. I definitely looking for that when I'm looking for doctors because it makes a very big difference in terms of the care you get, because the symptoms, random stomach pain can lead to a bigger problem for us, whereas someone else, it's just like, oh, you might just be constipated or something like that. 

06:38
Jennifer Milner
And to be clear here, so that people understand, we're talking about hypermobile, Ehler Stanlow syndrome. We're not talking just about being flexible, right? And we try to separate being flexible from hypermobility and having hypermobility from having something more multi systemic going on, like HEDs. So we are specifically talking about someone with a connective tissue disorder here. And also to clarify, so you have had three surgeries for the same issue or three injuries? 

07:10
Jazz Bynum
I've had five major surgeries, but I had three ACL tears or reconstructions on the same knee. 

07:18
Jennifer Milner
On the same knee. Wow. Let's just let that sink in for a second. And the fact that you have continued to keep going, your instagram name is the resilient ballerina and that absolutely encapsulates it to be able to come back. And it's such a clear example of, like you said, the importance of finding somebody who understands working with a connective tissue disorder and can approach it from a different way. Thank you. 

07:47
Dr. Linda Bluestein
And I wanted to you know, a lot of ballet dancers especially are very flexible, right? And as Jen said, flexibility and hypermobility are two different things, with hypermobility being more the ligaments and how the bones are aligned and what's the shape of the bones and things like that. Whereas flexibility refers more to like neural tension and the muscles and things. So I'm just really curious because so many dancers are probably going to listen to this and other people, other athletes, gymnasts, whatever, and they're going to be thinking, oh my gosh, could that be me? Maybe not, I don't know. I think I am hypermobile meaning greater than average range of motion of the joints. But then not everybody, as Jen said, not everybody has hypermobile Eds. But it is very important to be evaluated and get a proper workup so that you know exactly as you were just saying, how to get the right doctors to work with you and all of that. 

08:45
Dr. Linda Bluestein
So would you be willing to share more about the process of getting diagnosed with hypermobile Eds? Because I think a lot of dancers could really benefit from hearing a little bit more about your journey if you're willing to share any more about that. 

08:59
Jazz Bynum
So between the GI doctors that I had seen and the neurologists that I saw, they were like, you know what, maybe you should go see a genetics doctor. And so from there, I went to go see the geneticist and she was like, yeah, you definitely have it. 

09:15
Dr. Linda Bluestein
So obviously they did the bite and score. You went to a geneticist, they did the bit and score, they went through the checklist and they were looking at different things like how stretchy your skin is and stuff like that. I just want to make sure people know it does not have to be a geneticist, because a lot of times, at least a lot of other places I'm so glad you got to get into a geneticist, because a lot of people, especially if they suspect hypermobile. If either they do or maybe one of their doctors suspects hypermobile. Eds but their doctor is like, I don't know enough about it. I can't actually diagnose you. They cannot get in to see a geneticist. I have heard this from people and I've seen letters that say, we're sorry, but we cannot see you because if we don't suspect vascular or something like that right, which is really bad, there's like exclusion criteria like that. 

10:01
Dr. Linda Bluestein
I mean, that's terrible because really, people who have these conditions really should be getting in to see a geneticist. And you mentioned briefly, and I want to just touch on too, that there are different subtypes of a Los Danlos, right. And the vascular subtype is very important for people to be aware of because that does present very differently, has very different signs and symptoms and things like that. Not everyone has the classical facial features. There can be some overlap of what we call phenotypes, where some of the like, you're talking about aneurysms and things like that, some of those kind of things, you can see a little bit more vascular fragility too, even in the hypermobile type. So there's like possible concerns there. But there is the vascular type, which, like you said, do a blood test to actually determine that, or a cheek swab. 

10:53
Dr. Linda Bluestein
So those other types, all of the other types can be determined based off of a test. And that's really important because if you suspect one of those types, especially if you suspect the vascular type, that's a life threatening type. So we just want to make sure people know that there are different types. The hypermobile type is by far the most common type, like super many times more common than vascular type. So if you're thinking, oh my God, I'm a dancer, I'm hypermobile, and now I'm thinking I'm going to get aneurysm or something, just for people to know that it's not that it's impossible, but it's not likely. So it's important for each person to get evaluated individually because each person's picture is very different. And another important thing for people to know in there is, yes, you're born with hypermobile Eds, but we now are also talking about phenotypes. 

11:45
Dr. Linda Bluestein
So, like, the phenotype is like the clinical presentation, which is different from the genotype, which is your genetic makeup. I don't know if you saw Jazz, there was a paper by probably your schedule is so busy, I'm sure you wouldn't be like, roaming around on the Internet and stroll across this. But for people who are interested in what I'm talking about, there's a really great paper by my colleague Larry Afrin, who the title of it is some Cases of Hypermobile Eds may be rooted in Mass Cell Activation Syndrome. If a person has Mass Cell Activation syndrome and they get release of these mediators and especially release of something called proteases that can degrade connective tissue and can cause a picture that looks like hypermobile Eds. So now we're thinking, like, not all cases of hypermobile Eds are necessarily inherited. And Jen talked a while back about one last thing I'm going to mention, which I think is really important, is like, forced hypermobility dancers who are purposefully training their knees into hyperextension, right? 

12:50
Dr. Linda Bluestein
So they're doing the splits, they're putting forward splits and they're putting their front leg on blocks, putting their leg into a crazy amount of hyperextension that's not hyperextension that you were born with, that's acquired hyperextension. And I like when Jen said forced hyperextension because that's what it is. So those are all kind of like different things that I think are good for people to be aware of. 

13:14
Jazz Bynum
Yeah, I agree 100% because I definitely did not go to a school where extreme hypermobility was trained, but I had 180 degrees of turnout until I had hip surgery. And so all of those things were there. Like, I could easily do my homework in a split without even feeling a stretch. 

13:33
Dr. Linda Bluestein
Really? Wow. 

13:34
Jazz Bynum
Yeah. So there were many nights I just sit on the couch and I was just like, doing my homework. My mom's like, what are you doing? Right? Wow. 

13:43
Dr. Linda Bluestein
So were you hypermobile before you even really started dance? 

13:46
Jazz Bynum
Oh, yes. 

13:47
Dr. Linda Bluestein
Oh, were you okay? 

13:48
Jazz Bynum
Because my mom, when she had me, she was an aerobics instructor going to college and later went into education and everything, but because of that, she was just always very aware of what were eating and how our bodies were doing. And from a very young age, I think three was the first time that I was diagnosed with my first set of allergies, which I later found out were intolerances. But she was like, yeah, I think you were almost double jointed when I was little. So she definitely noticed very early on the things that were just different in my body. And then my sister is the complete opposite and she does of the level of flexibility that I had. I think also my mom has it. She's never been tested, but she has more hyperextension than I do and she's a lot older than I am, or obviously she's my mom, but even with her not being as active as I am now or as she was in her 20s, she still has a lot of hypermobility as well. 

14:54
Dr. Linda Bluestein
And that family history is always very important to be looking at. So you've already had hip surgery also? 

15:01
Jazz Bynum
Yes. So my very first surgery, I was 13 and I had a bunionectomy. But that actually was more of like a reconstruction of my foot, because the bunion, within a matter of like, two or three months, went from being a bunion to I couldn't even do a relevant and so not only did I have to get the bunion removed, but I had to get my foot reconstructed. And I had two screws from that. Then when I was 15, I had acetabular femoral impingement of the mixed type, which that took a while to diagnose because I also have a very high pain tolerance. And so I was like, oh, it's not that bad. But it was like, enough. It was annoying me because it was decreasing my range of motion. And I was like, this is not okay. And so I went through going to PT, seeing rheumatoid arthritis specialist, and then by the time I went to a summer intensive, I could not even sit in a car without being in pain. 

16:02
Jazz Bynum
And so I ended up having to get surgery, and I had torn through all the cartilage and all this stuff. So I had all that repaired, and then I had the three ACL tears. And then the last major, I guess, injury that I had but didn't result in surgery was I was dropped in a lift just in rehearsal, which is normal, and I went to not land on my partner's head and ended up fracturing my elbow. Those are the big ones, and that. 

16:38
Jennifer Milner
Last one is a random one, right? Those are the sort of things that you can't really control, but the others, you can start to see that pattern of having issues with the connective tissue and the way that your body works. Something you said earlier about how your mother noticed this. And you could tell from a very early age that and it sounds like you were sort of your family and you were sort of noticing it early on, and you were thinking, well, how do I fix this or how do I address that? Or how do I deal with this? And one of themes that we keep hearing when we interview other people is people who recognize it early on. They may not be able to name it, but who see something and have that family support to say, hey, let's address that, let's deal with it, whatever it is. 

17:20
Jennifer Milner
Really are so much more successful at being able to pursue their dreams without so many medical issues sort of carrying them down, because they learn how to deal with those medical issues at an earlier age. So I think part of your resiliency that you have isn't just something that you have, but that you've cultivated from a younger age and have put this sort of longevity plan into place, whether you realized it or not, by managing them as they're coming up and finding specialists who will help you manage it as they come up. So it's really great for people to hear that you've had so many surgeries and yet are still going forward and moving forward with your career and continuing to progress with your career. Not just like I'm going to keep dancing, but that your career is continuing to grow and blossom. So that's really fantastic. 

18:08
Jennifer Milner
So we've talked about you getting a diagnosis and sort of learning to live with your issues. I would love to know. As I said, you've been very open on Instagram about having hypermobile Eds. And a lot of dancers worry about sharing their health information because they fear companies or casting directors might use it to make sort of unfavorable decisions about them. And you're being very open about it. What made you decide to talk so openly about it? And not just that, but to show it on Instagram? Here is my surgery, here's me fighting to come back in my Pirouettes and allowing us to sort of see that vulnerable process as it goes on. So what made you make that decision to be so open about it? And what kind of response have you gotten? 

18:51
Jazz Bynum
So after my second ACL procedure is when I created the Resilient Ballerina while I was in college, I had started a support group for just dancers that were getting injured because at that point there were just a ton of us that were injured. And for me it was the first time that I was injured and away from home and I had to set the doctor's appointment, schedule my surgery, just like all these things. And I was like, I'm 20 and I'm trying to figure out how to do major surgery without my mom there. I mean, she came up and took care of me after, but it was a huge thing to have to navigate and not be home, especially once I was able to walk and easing my way back into dancing. And then I just noticed other dancers were going through the same sort of emotional turmoil also just with other injuries, not necessarily surgery, but things that were taking them out of dance for an extended period of time. 

19:49
Jazz Bynum
And so it started there and then that sort of created the Resilient Ballerina and I didn't get to create the page the way that I was able to this time in terms of doing my journey from beginning to end, because I started it kind of after I was already back. And so this time I decided to do beginning to continuing the rest of my career. Because we all get injured at different points in our career, we all go through surgeries at different points in our career, but people don't get to see that. And I think it's very important for younger dancers to understand that injuries and major surgeries are not career ending. Also to understand that going to college is not career ending. Because I feel like the whole idea and sort of energy towards how you can have a ballet career is so broad now that it has started to transition away from teachers who we have that had to go into a company right after high school, or if you weren't dancing by the age of 16, you were never going to make it. 

20:55
Jazz Bynum
And that's just not the case anymore. I've met male and female dancers all walks of life, all genders that have started at different times, that went through a whole bunch of different paths, took time know, went into a career, took time off, came know. There's just so many different ways that you can obtain this career, whether it's a big company, small company in the US. Not in the like. There's just so many things that you can do. And so I wanted to be as transparent and as clear with my journey as I could to, one, show people that your journey does not look any one sort of way. And also, the dancers that you're looking up to don't just have this easy pathway into their careers either. And even if they are, it's different, and that's okay. And a lot of what I say, whether it's something that I'm writing or an interview that I'm doing, I'm always trying to remind people that your journey is your journey and that you don't need to compare that to. 

21:56
Jazz Bynum
The person next to you or someone that you're looking at on social media because you have no idea where you're going to end up and what decision is going to take you into another opportunity. So that's pretty much why I decided to be so honest and transparent. And also, it helped me, too, through my recovery process. And it's been amazing to also be messaged or people reaching out, sharing either their stories or asking for advice. Because even after I tore my ACL, there was another dancer at another company who ended up tearing her ACL as well, and she was asking for guidance. And again, I think she hadn't started with doctors that were specialized in dancers. So even for her to get guidance on how to rehab back into class or back into a company and what that looks like helped her for her journey as well. 

22:48
Jazz Bynum
So to be able to do that is really my goal, keep spreading the information. Because I feel like between doctors and PPS, sometimes you're not always able to get in with people who know dancers or know exactly what it is you're getting back to. And so to close that gap of information, anytime something happens with dancers, whether I'm reaching out or they reach out, I'm like, this is what I know. This is what I've figured out the last ten years of my life. 

23:21
Dr. Linda Bluestein
And I can see where even if someone is working with a dance medicine physician, a dance medicine orthopedic surgeon, and a dance medicine physical therapist, you may still have some practical tips that you share that they're like, oh, that's great. So even if people have that, I think it's great for them to connect with you, and you're right. A lot of times we do fear that injuries are career ending. And so I think that's really great that you're helping other dancers and paying it forward and paying it backwards, I guess both at the same time for other people, because that's really important. 

23:59
Jazz Bynum
And also to that same point, even with this recovery process, I've gone through it three times now, and every single one has been completely different and in really cool ways. I feel like if I had to pick a worse one, it'd be the first one because I didn't have draft I wanted, and it tore after a year, which was just like frustrating. But between the second and the third process, they were different. But I had Pts both times that specialized in dance were dancers. But even this recovery process was just really cool. I had a lot of pool therapy this time, but even when it came to getting back to point work, I always felt like point work didn't need to be the last thing that you do, because through all the recovery processes that I've been through, it was always like, once you can jump, then you can do point. 

24:51
Jazz Bynum
And I always thought about it and I was like, well, why? Because you're not jumping to get onto point. It's the same muscles. Which I feel like that should be the first step before you start jumping. So you're slowly retraining that tract. And so the PT that I was working with this time, she's amazing. She actually started having me do a point in a chair before I was doing bar. And so then by the time it came from me being on point on my feet, I wasn't cramping. I didn't have as much fatigue because I had gone through all those exercises just doing them in a chair, which was way harder. But then, now, while I'm still building strength, even though I'm getting closer and closer to being a year post op, nothing is as hard as it has been in the past. And I think that also has something to do with weight training and all those things, but just the whole timeline of how recovery weighs. 

25:46
Jazz Bynum
So even those things, like just what I've learned through that process, has also been cool to find out, but then also nice to be able to share, like try this. 

25:59
Jennifer Milner
One of the things that I always say to people is that you just have to find one person and find that one person, and that'll get you started on your own journey. And I think that you are a great example of that. You said you get people emailing you and sending you messages and saying, I don't know what to do. And you say, we'll try this. That one person can be someone who has been through it like you have, and who can say, Well, I did it this way. See if you can find this person or that person or maybe mention this to your PT or maybe suggest that to your doctor. So it's great to have someone like you who has been through this in so many different ways, right? Three different surgeries for the same thing and learning a new approach to the rehab of it. 

26:40
Jennifer Milner
So your willingness to be vulnerable and show people it's okay to have injuries, number one, but number two, also to share the information that you have worked really hard to get. This has been hard won information, right? And it's great that you are willing to share that information with others and to help other people on this journey because I know we can often feel sort of alone in all of that. You also touched on, you said as part of your recovery process, you said there can be lots of factors to it, like weight training and everything like that. I would love to know, has this injury recovery process sort of shaped the way you're or reframed the way you are going to work to stay in shape and what your out of dance conditioning is going to look like? And could you sort of share some of that with our listeners? 

27:32
Jazz Bynum
Yes. So I am always looking for more ways to just be active, but to cross train. I love doing yoga and I love doing Pilates, but especially in terms of strength building, because once you've gone through this surgical process, the strength building does not end. It always has to continue, which is fine. And it's really cool because you're always sort of evolving and revamping what you're capable of doing. And even with what I did at the gym, I was always sort of hesitant towards weights just because of how I envisioned my body would react to weights. And then during this recovery process, my PT, she explained, she was like, you're not going to bulk up because you don't have enough testosterone in your system to bulk up. And also there's different ways of lifting, just like there's different ways of doing cardio and all these things. 

28:31
Jazz Bynum
And so having to do weights in order to build the strength in this knee, I then also learned that, okay, yes, I can do weights. And so now it's exciting because I feel like now I have this much more well rounded gym experience and gym workout in terms of keeping the strength building in my body, but also keeping my body lean the way that I want it to be. And so I feel like with the combination of doing the weight training and reformer work, it's like whole different type of body, because I was very worried this time about how my body would react to going from dancing 6 hours a day to doing virtually nothing for like, two months and then slowly building that back up again. And it was very easy for me to maintain within a reasonable limit. And I didn't really realize it at first. 

29:25
Jazz Bynum
Because there's so many things that you're going through this recovery process. But I think by just allowing my body to go through the process it needed to go through and keeping my body nourished, it just worked out that way because in past surgeries that wasn't necessarily the case. But I think also the big difference is now I've gone through puberty. I was going through puberty at that point, so my body was still trying to figure that out. But also no matter what my body was going to do, I kept trying to remind myself, like, whatever does happen, it's okay, there's room for all of these things and I have time to get to wherever I want to be if I was going to veer very far from that. But yeah. So it's been fun sort of to play around with different ways of cross training. 

30:19
Jazz Bynum
And weights is definitely something that I will keep, especially in the off season, because getting power back has been probably the biggest struggle in this recovery process compared to others, especially because this surgery was way more extensive than just a normal reconstruction. So I feel like weights is probably the biggest thing. And then I'll keep doing yoga, keep hiking, doing Pilates well. 

30:49
Jennifer Milner
And weights is something that a lot of dancers, not just hypermobile ones, worry about and struggle with. And especially with hypermobility, it is really hard to build strength. And as you said, your power is kind of the last thing to come back. We find that very it's very common for dancers to be able to regain that power and to be able to have that physical resiliency, that rebound, and also the big jump power as well. So that's really common. I did want touch on something you said in that answer about at points along the way you're thinking, where am I going to have time to get to where I'm trying to get to? You've had 12345 surgeries, is that right? 

31:31
Jazz Bynum
Yeah. Wait, one, two, three. 

31:33
Jennifer Milner
Yeah, you've had five surgeries and you have been so open and honest about your journey here. Were there moments when you thought, I don't know if this is worth it, and did you have that sort of emotional vulnerability at certain points? And how did you find the support you needed at those moments? 

31:53
Jazz Bynum
I feel like when I did have those moments, it was out of frustration because even if I said it, I didn't mean it. Even this last time when I tore it, I literally could not believe it because it had been six years since the second one. And so I was like, what? But immediately, okay. When surgery, it didn't even dawn on me to not continue because my philosophy since I was a kid was like, unless you're telling me I can't walk ever again, I'm going to keep dancing. And even then, I think I would still try to find a way that I could keep dancing. So it's almost, like, not an option for me in a way, because it's like, even though I know how long in Drooling the recovery process is going to be, I'm like, I don't care how hard it's going to be. 

32:46
Jazz Bynum
I'm going to do it. And so I feel like where those thoughts come in, it's out of frustration or a really hard day or feeling defeated because I can't do a quad press or something like that. But then I also know that's my self doubt trying to come through. And then either I'm shutting it down because I'm like, no, or my mom is like, you can do this. And I feel like most of the time it's her. I get past that point. My mother is probably the most amazing person that I know. She sees a lot of things that I'm going through that sometimes I don't even realize what it is that I'm going through. And she's a very strong support and also extremely encouraging even in terms of getting to this diagnosis. She fought very hard with doctors to either take my symptoms seriously or to get them to look deeper, even if they didn't feel like it was necessary. 

33:49
Jazz Bynum
So it's been amazing to also have her as a mom in general, but especially having her a part of my team to get me where I needed to be. But all that said, I think those thoughts come out of frustration. But whether it's me or her, pulling myself out of those thoughts to keep moving forward and also journaling is a really big thing for me because going through those surgical processes, I don't really like to as ironic as this is, I don't like to express what I'm going through with those moments. So that was another thing that was really great about documenting this whole process, was I was getting things out as they were happening. And so I wasn't stuck in my frustration or stuck in sadness as long as I had been in the past, because I was one sharing it. But then because I was sharing it and expressing that emotion, I was then able to just release it and then go home and sleep or whatever it was I had to do during the day. 

34:57
Jazz Bynum
But definitely in the past, it was not something that I liked to do, but it was also, in a way, destructive because it was just leaving me in this bad mood all the time, which that is something that you're going through is okay, but it's not a place that I wanted to be stuck in. And so I'm always looking for ways to keep myself moving through those moments, so that way I'm not ignoring them, but also not being stuck in them, because that's just not where I want to be emotionally or anything like that. 

35:31
Jennifer Milner
Well, and to see the importance of your mother, it's so important to have someone else by your side, who can advocate for you in the doctor's office, in the living room when you are tired and exhausted and frustrating? You need that advocate, you need that cheerleader that can speak into your life. But you also have done an amazing job trying to be forward looking and sort of encouraging yourself and as you said, developing those skills. I need to journal, I need to instagram, and giving yourself healthy outlets for it. You really have been cultivating that resiliency that long term. Here's what I need to do to move forward. What's next, right? 

36:11
Jazz Bynum
Yes. 

36:12
Jennifer Milner
And that's an amazing part of your journey, I think. Is there anything that we haven't discussed that you wanted to share with our listeners? 

36:20
Jazz Bynum
I don't think so. I think we've pretty much covered everything. I will say, though, that if this is something that you find out that you have, it's an ever evolving journey. Like now, the things that I need or the things that worked for me when I was first diagnosed aren't necessarily working now, even in terms of certain things that were allergies actually turned out to be intolerances. So it's just something that you're always learning, always redefining for yourself. So keep open to learning and exploring with anything, really. But especially since we're specifically talking about HDS, just keep trying to gather information, because even now, post surgery, going into surgery, I was like, on the website looking up articles, just trying to soak in as much information as I can. Because while we're figuring out, so are the doctors, which is cool, because there's more growing information, even with knowing the surgical procedure now exists, because it's only five, six years old. 

37:28
Jazz Bynum
And I had surgery, I think, six years ago, which was also crazy because I had my second procedure and then was diagnosed a year later with HEDs, but the surgery didn't even exist then. So just one of those things. But stay open. 

37:45
Jennifer Milner
And so where can people find you if they want to follow you or learn more about what you do? 

37:50
Jazz Bynum
So on Instagram, you can follow underscore the resilient ballerina. Underscore and on TikTok, same thing, the resilient ballerina. And feel free to message me at any point. I'm open. I'm here to help. 

38:06
Dr. Linda Bluestein
Oh, that's really sweet. That's really sweet. I think people knowing that they're not alone is so huge. And I think so often dancers, we have difficulty expressing ourselves. We're so used to not using our voice and we can really struggle and feel like we are alone. So that's an incredible offer. And I hope if people really are feeling alone, that they reach out to you, because I think that's fabulous. Thank you. 

38:33
Jazz Bynum
As big as our world is, it's also small at the same time. Can't even tell you random connections I've gotten, whether it's in the ballet world or the real world. And so it doesn't make sense. Gatekeep information. We should all be here to help each other out. So, yes, please do not hesitate to reach out. 

38:56
Jennifer Milner
Absolutely. That's awesome. Thank you. You have been listening to Bendy Bodies with the Hypermobility MD, and our guest today was Jazz Bynum, professional ballerina with Ballet West. Jazz, it has been a pleasure speaking with you and having you share your journey with us. Thank you so much for coming on. 

39:13
Jazz Bynum
Thank you both so much for having me. 

39:16
Dr. Linda Bluestein
We love chatting with you. It's great. 

39:18
Jennifer Milner
If you loved what you have learned, follow the Bendy Bodies Podcast to avoid missing future episodes. Screenshot this Episode tagging us in your story so we can connect. Our website is WW bendibodies.org and follow us on Instagram at bendybodies. Leaving a review following the Bendy Bodies podcast and sharing the podcast helps spread the word about hypermobility and associated conditions. This information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. The information shared is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. We'll catch you next time on The Bendy Bodies podcast.