65. Finding Balance with Jenelle Manzi

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00:00
Dr. Linda Bluestein
In this episode of the Bendy Bodies podcast, Janelle Manzi, professional ballet dancer with the New York City Ballet, displays how she balances investing in her health without letting it overwhelm. Her optimizing function with Symptomatic joint hypermobility will mean different things for different people at various points across the lifespan and will vary depending on your own unique circumstances. We hope you will enjoy this uplifting conversation. 

00:37
Jennifer Milner
Welcome back to the Bendy Bodies Podcast, where we speak with experts bringing you state of the art information to help you improve your well being, enhance your performance, and optimize career longevity. This is co host Jennifer Milner, here with the hypermobility MD, dr. Linda Bluestein. 

00:52
Dr. Linda Bluestein
We are so glad you are here to learn tips to live your best Bendy life. This information is for educational purposes only and it's not a substitute for medical advice. 

01:00
Jennifer Milner
I'm Jennifer Milner, a former professional ballet and Broadway dancer, and I struggled my whole career with hypermobility related issues and injuries. Now I train dancers and want to make sure the next generation of hypermobile artists are better equipped to work to their fullest potential. 

01:16
Dr. Linda Bluestein
I'm Dr. Linda Bluestein, and I started Bendy Bodies to educate the hypermobile community. Despite being a physician, I experienced decades of symptoms before being finally diagnosed with hypermobile Eds. I've combined my medical education and personal experience to treat and coach patients and clients to optimize their quality of life. 

01:36
Jennifer Milner
Our guest today is Janelle Manzi, professional ballet dancer with New York City ballet, founder of Get Golden, an eds warrior. Hello, Janelle, and welcome to Bendy Bodies. Hello. 

01:47
Jenelle Manzi
Thank you for having me. I'm truly honored to be here. 

01:50
Jennifer Milner
We are very excited to have you here. So before we dig into what we want to talk to you about, can you tell us a bit about who you are? 

01:58
Jenelle Manzi
I'm Janelle, and I am a ballerina with New York City Ballet. I'm in the court of ballet, and. 

02:03
Jenelle Manzi
I've struggled with Eds pretty much my entire career. 

02:09
Jenelle Manzi
And through that, I learned a lot of lessons that inspired me to build. 

02:15
Jenelle Manzi
My food and wellness company at golden. 

02:17
Jennifer Milner
And that's what we want to talk to you about today. That's like the one sentence summary of what we're about to discuss for the next however many minutes is sort of what you went through with your career. So what was life for you growing up as you were aspiring to be a professional ballet to a professional ballet career? 

02:36
Jenelle Manzi
Injuries, instability, benefits, not benefits, all of that. 

02:42
Jenelle Manzi
I'm sure a lot of people that. 

02:44
Jenelle Manzi
Have Eds can relate to this sort of reflection that I didn't even really. 

02:50
Jenelle Manzi
Realize until I was diagnosed and until I had read several studies and books and listened to podcast interviews about people that had the same experience. So I clearly remember my mom always having to tell anyone that was playing with me that they couldn't grab my arms too quickly or pull me because my shoulders would pop out, my elbows would dislocate, and I would have to. 

03:13
Jenelle Manzi
Go to the emergency room and have everything reset. 

03:15
Jenelle Manzi
And this would happen all the time. I mean, your grandparents would pick you up and swing you around like normal kids. That's what you do. And it would happen time and time again. 

03:23
Jenelle Manzi
And I didn't even really connect the. 

03:25
Jenelle Manzi
Two together until actually probably the last maybe two years. Thought that might have some sort of parallel. 

03:34
Jenelle Manzi
I always had issues with joints popping out of place and just odd injuries. 

03:43
Jenelle Manzi
And odd inflammatory responses. I would have a lot of allergic reactions. Let's say a mosquito would bite me. 

03:50
Jenelle Manzi
And I would have to semi end. 

03:52
Jenelle Manzi
The family vacation because my calf would blow up like four times the size of it previously. And all of these things looking back now, make total sense. 

04:01
Jenelle Manzi
But in the moment, as I was. 

04:03
Jenelle Manzi
Growing up, it was just kind of one of those things, okay, bubble, my parents say, like bubble, because I was always kind of getting hurt. Yeah, I was a little bit accident prone, and I was also fearless. I loved to be active, I loved to rollerblade and climb and bike ride, and I still do. But I definitely was super accident prone. 

04:25
Jenelle Manzi
And so looking back, all of those. 

04:28
Jenelle Manzi
Mostly joint instabilities and some allergic responses. 

04:32
Jenelle Manzi
That were pretty extreme all kind of painted the picture for the rest of where I am now. 

04:40
Dr. Linda Bluestein
And of course, in ballet, especially, being flexible and having incredible range of motion can be very beneficial. But somewhere along the way, did you realize that your body was built differently from other dancers? And can you tell us about that? 

04:55
Jenelle Manzi
I think that one of the most extreme things that I didn't even want to admit until I've realized why I used to do it. I remember being really tired, standing for. 

05:07
Jenelle Manzi
Too long in class in a summer. 

05:12
Jenelle Manzi
Program, and I would need to sit down. I never understood why other people's hips weren't tired from just kind of standing in the back of the studio before they did the combinations. And it is because I think this. 

05:22
Jenelle Manzi
Is my theory that I have to. 

05:24
Jenelle Manzi
Work a little bit harder to keep my femurs and my legs to even stand because my femurs just pop out. And so I guess growing up at SAB, I mean, I loved my experience there and I didn't really understand how to create shapes. And I think that's where I really struggled. And at SAB and Balanchine technique, there is obviously a shape and a specific look that we're supposed to have. And I was able to contort my. 

05:51
Jenelle Manzi
Body to do it, but that did. 

05:53
Jenelle Manzi
Not mean that it was correct. 

05:56
Jenelle Manzi
And that works for so long. 

06:02
Jenelle Manzi
I had great flexibility, I had beautiful extension, and I cherish those things to this day. But I definitely struggled because I didn't even know what I didn't have. And I think that's the key that I've finally come to terms with and realized was a squareness and a stability. 

06:20
Jenelle Manzi
That you don't even know how to. 

06:22
Jenelle Manzi
Turn those muscles on or know that those you don't have that neuromuscular connection until you start to discover it. And it was impossible for me to find it because I didn't even know who to go to, how to do it. 

06:36
Jenelle Manzi
It's like, you don't know what you don't know. And so I just thought everything I was doing was normal and things were. 

06:44
Jenelle Manzi
Supposed to pop out and you were supposed to click things like this so that it moves and gets into this position. And that's just how it went. And to get into an Arabs, there were 50 million ways to do it. Someone says like Debla Pesai. And in your brain, which is a whole other thing, you have 500 options. Do I go this way? Do I go that route? Do you go that route where I think that someone that's not necessarily as hypermobile, obviously there's a not proper ballet way to do something, but anatomically, there's only one physical way that they can. 

07:16
Jenelle Manzi
Really go that route. 

07:17
Jenelle Manzi
And I think that's where I had so many different options, but didn't even. 

07:20
Jenelle Manzi
Know that there was only supposed to be most likely one. So you just make it work. 

07:26
Jenelle Manzi
Any ballerina does that. It's in our blood. We make it work. And so that's what I did for many years, is made it work. 

07:34
Jenelle Manzi
And it did work. 

07:34
Jenelle Manzi
I mean, I'm grateful for getting to where I am and for SAB providing me with the training that I have and carried with me. But I definitely had to learn a. 

07:44
Jenelle Manzi
Lot as the years went on, as. 

07:47
Jenelle Manzi
I became a professional. 

07:49
Jennifer Milner
Well, and that's something we hear a lot from dancers, from pre professional dancers and newly professional dancers. Dealing with hypermobility is so many teachers love you because you can make these beautiful pictures and so many dancers are people pleasers. That's just kind of what we grow up to do. We want to please those people in authority. And they say, do this. And you're like, okay. And you do whatever it takes to do that. And they're like, that's cool. Can you do this? And you're like, okay. And so you do these things and they're like, that's great. And then after a few years, they're like, this kind of hurts, or this doesn't feel right. Or like you said, I'm not feeling any connection to this or that. Is that right? So I think a lot of dancers with hypermobile disorders hit that point where they're the easy to work with person to start with because they can create those pictures and then they're the hard to work with person because they're creating those pictures at a cost and starting to get injured and starting to say, I don't think I should do that. 

08:53
Jennifer Milner
And having to take time out and that sort of thing. So I think there are lots of people that have kind of had your experience. 

08:59
Jenelle Manzi
Yeah, I think also one more thing on that. I struggled to figure out how other people did it, and I mean students. And I would feel frustrated with myself that I think, as a student, especially, you want to do the best you can for your teacher and when you can't necessarily create those movements and create. 

09:20
Jenelle Manzi
Those exact shapes that they want. 

09:22
Jenelle Manzi
But you kind of can do it with your flexibility. That's where I felt so much inner frustration and confusion, and then that led to lack of confidence, all of those things, because you wanted to be the best dancer. You wanted to listen to your teacher and do what she was saying, but you physically couldn't figure out how to. 

09:37
Jenelle Manzi
Do it because your muscles, you don't. 

09:39
Jenelle Manzi
Even know how to make it happen. And, yeah, you deal with a little bit of a comparison issue, too, which I know isn't healthy, but when you're younger, you don't know any better. 

09:49
Dr. Linda Bluestein
I think that's a huge key right there. When you're a younger dancer, you don't know any better. That's like an excellent point right there. That, like you said, you just make it happen. And over time, you have to kind of figure out other ways to do things as maybe things get to be harder or things start to hurt. Was there a time when you felt like maybe you would need to stop dancing for a while and kind of work on your health? And if so, how was that? 

10:18
Jenelle Manzi
I think several times. So my first serious injury in the company was my second going on third year. 

10:25
Jenelle Manzi
And I had been dealing with two. 

10:27
Jenelle Manzi
Ostragonums that had broken off, and they had been irritating and then tore my tendon. 

10:32
Jenelle Manzi
And I was very young, naive, eager. 

10:36
Jenelle Manzi
To get back on the stage, perhaps too eager. And I had chosen to do the quick fix of getting cortisone injections. 

10:44
Jenelle Manzi
And I think by nature, it weakened the tendon more. 

10:48
Jenelle Manzi
And then I ended up back in square one a year later of just being in a bootcast, getting cortisone injections with the same exact pain, same exact swelling with a torn tendon instead of just ostragonums. And so at that point, I had exploratory surgery to repair the tendon. 

11:01
Jenelle Manzi
That they figured out was torn and. 

11:03
Jenelle Manzi
To remove the ostragonums. 

11:05
Jenelle Manzi
And that kicked off the worst time. 

11:08
Jenelle Manzi
In my whole life. 

11:08
Jenelle Manzi
I mean, I was learning how to. 

11:10
Jenelle Manzi
Walk in a pool. I was dealing with food sensitivities, all. 

11:14
Jenelle Manzi
Of a sudden, very slow to heal. 

11:16
Jenelle Manzi
And this was the pattern that we and by we, my physical therapist doctor. 

11:22
Jenelle Manzi
Started to realize how slow or how. 

11:25
Jenelle Manzi
Much slower to heal I was than. 

11:26
Jenelle Manzi
A lot of other people. 

11:28
Jenelle Manzi
And when you're young and you're excited about dancing with your dream company, I felt pathetic. You feel like your body's failing you don't understand why you're so inflamed in certain areas, why it's not healing the same as other people. And it was really tough. So I think that was the first time, my first big injury where I. 

11:51
Jenelle Manzi
Felt recovering from that, I would sit. 

11:54
Jenelle Manzi
At that table, on the table and. 

11:56
Jenelle Manzi
Just wonder, is it all worth it? 

11:59
Jenelle Manzi
Being so frustrated, wondering, what am I doing? I can also continue with more. I probably need two hands for this. 

12:11
Jennifer Milner
Hold on, because before you go deeper in that, I just want to sketch out a timeline really quick. I'd love to know at what point in your career you were diagnosed with Eds. And there was that moment where you were like, oh, so I have this thing. Was it before these injuries started happening? Was it after these injuries started happening? So at what point did that happen? 

12:33
Jenelle Manzi
So 2000, and maybe it was ten. 

12:37
Jenelle Manzi
I started to hear the words, or. 

12:40
Jenelle Manzi
They started to register. You're extremely hypermobile, Janelle's. Extremely hypermobile. 

12:45
Jenelle Manzi
Extremely hypermobile. 

12:47
Jenelle Manzi
I didn't even know what that meant. 

12:49
Jenelle Manzi
I just thought it meant I was flexible. 

12:51
Jenelle Manzi
And I started seeing a Pilates instructor, Marimba, who's also been on the podcast. 

12:55
Jennifer Milner
Shout out to Marimba. I love that girl so much. 

13:00
Jenelle Manzi
She changed my life. 

13:02
Jenelle Manzi
And she taught me a lot about hypermobility through both her own experience and. 

13:07
Jenelle Manzi
Explaining it and guiding me to some. 

13:10
Jenelle Manzi
Of the doctors that she had seen or doctor or friends of friends. 

13:13
Jenelle Manzi
And I kind of took a lot. 

13:16
Jenelle Manzi
Of those tools and expanded upon them and learned more and got really just. 

13:21
Jenelle Manzi
Intrigued and curious about Eds and what. 

13:26
Jenelle Manzi
It was and do I have it? And I would say in 2015, it was when I officially went and got diagnosed. And then I, most recently this summer, once again went and got I don't know what you would call it, re diagnosed just to make sure. Reassessed, I guess. Reassessed, yes. 

13:46
Jenelle Manzi
Because I had once again, another injury. So. 

13:53
Jenelle Manzi
I always wonder about this, whether sometimes you just need I think we. 

13:57
Jenelle Manzi
All in times of frustration and darkness. 

14:02
Jenelle Manzi
To be really frank, you need answer. You want something to hold on to. You need hope. 

14:08
Jenelle Manzi
Yeah, we all need answer to. 

14:10
Jenelle Manzi
Kind of even just get out of that hole. And I was really frustrated this past. 

14:15
Jenelle Manzi
Summer with a fracture that I have now gotten twice. And you just want to I don't know. You need answer. So, yes, my first official diagnosis was. 

14:30
Jenelle Manzi
In 2015, and that pretty much helped. 

14:32
Jenelle Manzi
Me understand little bit more about at least being hypermobile. And that, like I said, kicked off me. 

14:44
Jenelle Manzi
Then researching more about, obviously, nutrition and. 

14:46
Jenelle Manzi
Seeing a holistic nutritionist, seeing you name the healer. 

14:50
Jenelle Manzi
I went to them, and I feel like they taught me so much and also inspired me to continue my studies and to continue ordering this book and. 

14:58
Jenelle Manzi
That book and reading just. 

15:01
Jenelle Manzi
Even studies in various journals about what was happening in the space and listening to other people's experiences. And I discovered your podcast, and in those moments, you feel like your entire life, you feel like you can finally relate to people and you feel heard. 

15:18
Jenelle Manzi
And you feel like your experiences and. 

15:21
Jenelle Manzi
It sounds wacky to say this out loud but are valid. 

15:23
Jenelle Manzi
And I look back at the little. 

15:26
Jenelle Manzi
Girl in me and just feel so. 

15:27
Jenelle Manzi
Bad for her in a way, and. 

15:30
Jenelle Manzi
Sorry because I was so mad at myself, at my body, at what was happening. 

15:37
Jenelle Manzi
And there comes a point in this journey with flexibility, hypermobility syndrome, where you just have to accept that this is. 

15:51
Jenelle Manzi
Your reality and this is what it. 

15:53
Jenelle Manzi
Is and you have to make the best of it. 

15:56
Jennifer Milner
Well, and I see people hit that point a lot. We watch people go through all the different stages of it. And I'm thinking about what you said earlier in the podcast, about how your parents were always joking about we got to put Chanel in her bubble. And it can feel so frustrating because you do feel like you're in a know, I can't spin around with someone holding my hands like everybody does. I can't sit on the floor comfortably like everybody does because my tailbone moves. I can't do this, I can't do that. And it gets so frustrating. And I know Dr. Bluestein feels the same way. We've been through this ourselves. We're like, why can't we just eat dairy like everyone else? Why can't we do this like everyone else? It's not fair. But what you're talking about is learning how to thrive inside that bubble. 

16:43
Jennifer Milner
And I think it's okay to acknowledge your limitations and then say, maybe the possibilities within those limitations aren't as limited as I think they are. Right? Let's see how can I thrive within that bubble? It's a stretchy bubble. Let's see how far we can push it. Right? Let's see what we can do. And one of the key things is what you did is to gather that support team. And it sounds like you've been slowly gathering that support team as you've learned more and as you've gone further. So you talked about some having those dark moments. I appreciate you acknowledging that because everybody goes through those dark moments and you're like, this is so freaking hard. 

17:22
Jenelle Manzi
Is it too hard? 

17:24
Jennifer Milner
And did you hit a point or have you hit more than one point where you thought, it's not worth it, I'm not coming back to dance. When you were trying to get through these injuries? 

17:35
Jenelle Manzi
I mean, yes and no. I think it never got so serious that I almost did it officially, but. 

17:43
Jenelle Manzi
I definitely had extremely low weeks during the time I was injured. I mean, you name the time where my mind would definitely go there. But I love dance so much, and. 

17:57
Jenelle Manzi
I think that through personal reflection and. 

18:00
Jenelle Manzi
Really listening to what I wanted. And I would do a lot of journaling, too, and you really have to outweigh the positives and the negatives. 

18:07
Jenelle Manzi
And I think I would just put. 

18:10
Jenelle Manzi
Myself in this place where I would think about, I can let this win. 

18:14
Jenelle Manzi
Or I can let my heart win. 

18:17
Jenelle Manzi
And my heart and my passion and my work ethic at this point until it's not possible, will conquer this. And until it's not possible, I'm not backing down. 

18:27
Jenelle Manzi
And I spoke or not spoke. 

18:29
Jenelle Manzi
I wrote out recently for an interview. 

18:32
Jenelle Manzi
That I'm really excited about one. 

18:35
Jenelle Manzi
Of the qualities of being a ballet dancer and how it helps me being a founder now. And I think one of the words that's very important is resilience. And I think that anyone that has this condition, you have to be so resilient. And it's just so beautiful to see. 

18:52
Jenelle Manzi
Someone go through hardship and work through. 

18:55
Jenelle Manzi
The many steps and loopholes and bumps. 

18:58
Jenelle Manzi
To get back to a place. And each time, I mean, I truly. 

19:02
Jenelle Manzi
Believe each time you're stronger and you're a better artist, you're a better dancer, you're a better person, you're a smarter person. I had a really wise teacher. This was a few years ago, before the pandemic. Christine Wright. She's now based in Canada. 

19:15
Jennifer Milner
I love Christine. 

19:16
Jenelle Manzi
Me too. 

19:17
Jennifer Milner
I used to take her class. I miss it so much. 

19:19
Jenelle Manzi
City center. So Marimba told me to go to. 

19:22
Jenelle Manzi
Her, and she taught me a lot. 

19:26
Jenelle Manzi
And it's funny thinking back. She was really helping me with my hypermobility, but I didn't even know it then. 

19:32
Jenelle Manzi
And she had said to me, you. 

19:34
Jenelle Manzi
Don'T want to be the best dancer in the room. You want to be the smartest dancer in the room. And that sentence stuck with me for the rest of my career. And in those moments of frustration that. 

19:45
Jenelle Manzi
You couldn't do it for the 50th. 

19:47
Jenelle Manzi
Time in rehearsal or you felt something else pull and your mind is already going there, it was automatically, no, you. 

19:54
Jenelle Manzi
Do not need to talk negatively to yourself. You need to be smart, you need. 

19:59
Jenelle Manzi
To approach this wisely, and you want to be the smartest dancer in the room. 

20:02
Jenelle Manzi
For you, that doesn't mean comparison. That means the smartest answer for you. 

20:06
Jenelle Manzi
And I say that to myself constantly to this day. 

20:10
Dr. Linda Bluestein
I think that's really brilliant. And I really like that you brought up resilience, because I think a lot of my colleagues don't realize that people with Eds are like, the most resilient people there are because they have to cope with so much. And that instead of thinking, oh, my gosh, how could you possibly you must be crazy or lazy because you're reporting all these different things. It's like, no, I'm actually incredibly resilient because I've got all these things going on, yet I'm still standing, I'm still here. I feel like ordinary humans are like connective tissue, typicals or whatever we want to call them. Like other people. Oftentimes they don't really have to deal with too many health challenges and then when they do, oftentimes they don't cope with it as well. We often are pretty resilient and adaptable and we just keep going, amazingly enough. 

21:03
Jenelle Manzi
Yeah, I think we're all meant to live a beautiful life and I think that we're all dealt different cards and you have to, or at least for me, I really had to figure out how do I create beauty from this. 

21:16
Jenelle Manzi
And how do I live a beautiful. 

21:18
Jenelle Manzi
Life and a joyful life? If this is the situation you can go on living being depressed and feeling defeated and feeling mad and what a life for what why? And of course, I spent probably if you were to add it all up, probably a year, maybe more, being mad, hating everything, being so frustrated and angry. And finally you just have to pick yourself up and just say, do I really want to live my life like this? Do I want to be miserable every. 

21:46
Jenelle Manzi
Single day and hate my body that I was born with? 

21:50
Jenelle Manzi
So I really think it's just important to find light in order to live a beautiful life. 

21:54
Jennifer Milner
I think that's great. I think that a lot of it can come down to your attitude, like you've said, like the way that you approach everything. But you've done a fair amount of study as well and a fair amount of putting your own work into it, gathering your team, learning about all the other things. One of the last things to fall in place for many people is their health through what they eat and how that can impact their hypermobility and deal with that. And it sounds like you've done a fair amount of research on that through your own health journey. And I believe that was sort of the inspiration to start your own company. Get golden. Can you sort of describe how food played a role in your issues and how you found a way to balance nutrition and exercise in a healthy way? 

22:41
Jenelle Manzi
Yes. 

22:42
Jenelle Manzi
After my first serious injury, I developed quite a bunch of food sensitivities and it was through seeing different doctors and. 

22:50
Jenelle Manzi
Holistic nutritionists and learning more about this is before this was the very new. 

22:57
Jenelle Manzi
Gut brain connection, gut microbiome. I mean, I think we're all a. 

23:00
Jenelle Manzi
Little bit more familiar with the studies. 

23:03
Jenelle Manzi
And where things are going in terms of how we can best support our bodies. 

23:09
Jenelle Manzi
But I think this was a very. 

23:11
Jenelle Manzi
New time where I was fascinated that. 

23:14
Jenelle Manzi
Trauma or stress or just any sort of imbalance of the gut microbiome could. 

23:21
Jenelle Manzi
Also and obviously there's still research being done here on a continuous basis. 

23:25
Jenelle Manzi
But I was fascinated by that idea. 

23:28
Jenelle Manzi
That I had spent my entire life maybe having allergic responses to certain things but never having food sensitivities or allergies. And then all of a sudden I had this huge injury and it kicks. 

23:37
Jenelle Manzi
Off a slew of various food sensitivities. 

23:41
Jenelle Manzi
And so I was frustrated, to be honest. I couldn't eat a lot of things. I couldn't eat dairy, I couldn't eat gluten, I couldn't eat high histamine foods, fermented foods, avocado and bananas made me break out and my lips would swell. It was bizarre, frustrating. I'm Italian, I love to cook. Dinner is a huge priority in my family. My dad asked the question, I think I mentioned this in another feature one time, 07:00 A.m., maybe earlier. My dad says, what's for dinner? It's top priority and not being able to eat any of the foods I love, I was really frustrated and so I started to make all these different snacks and bites and obviously meals too with the ingredients that I could. 

24:23
Jenelle Manzi
And I think it was probably through. 

24:27
Jenelle Manzi
One of my injuries where I was recovering, where I had more free time. I think I was taking classes at. 

24:31
Jenelle Manzi
Fordham, going to PT and taking on. 

24:35
Jenelle Manzi
New passions and one of those was creating fuel for my body that also. 

24:39
Jenelle Manzi
Healed it and it was through playing. 

24:41
Jenelle Manzi
Around with different adaptogens and medicinal mushrooms. This was when all of this wasn't so buzzy too. This was probably more than ten years ago at this point and I started a blog and I started sharing my recipes and my photos that weren't even that good, but we can say they. 

24:54
Jenelle Manzi
Were because I liked photography too. 

24:58
Jenelle Manzi
And I really love to share. I love to share what I was going through and bringing my treats and my snacks to my friends because it gave me a sense of community, it gave me a sense of connection, wanting. 

25:09
Jenelle Manzi
To share what I was working on. 

25:11
Jenelle Manzi
And what I was doing. 

25:12
Jenelle Manzi
And it was through all of that I built the inspiration for my. 

25:18
Jenelle Manzi
Company and I also was just learning along the way too. 

25:21
Jenelle Manzi
I would say each year that I would learn more about my own body and healing my own body and I. 

25:30
Jenelle Manzi
Now have very little food sensitivities. I avoid gluten during season just because I do necessarily, I just feel a. 

25:35
Jenelle Manzi
Little bit less swollen joint wise and. 

25:39
Jenelle Manzi
Any amount of swelling, you just cut it during season especially. 

25:44
Jenelle Manzi
But I've healed a lot of my food sensitivities through healing my body. And I think that there is no. 

25:54
Jenelle Manzi
One way to heal the body. And I think that it's a constant process. And I couldn't even explain exactly how. 

26:00
Jenelle Manzi
I did it other than through work. 

26:03
Jenelle Manzi
And really listening to both doctors and. 

26:05
Jenelle Manzi
Myself and the responses I would get. But I think I gained this level. 

26:13
Jenelle Manzi
Of both frustration and understanding for the need of balance. 

26:18
Jenelle Manzi
And I think I would roll my. 

26:21
Jenelle Manzi
Eyes and still sometimes roll my eyes at that statement because you tell someone. 

26:24
Jenelle Manzi
That is celiac or can't eat dairy. 

26:27
Jenelle Manzi
Or something, just say oh, live a little. Life is about balance. But that's not always the reality. And I think we really need to take each person's situation, each phase of life and phase of where your body is at a given time and really assess what can my body handle, what can't my body handle? 

26:45
Jenelle Manzi
And back to my point before make. 

26:47
Jenelle Manzi
Light of it, make it joyful, make it fun. 

26:50
Jenelle Manzi
And my company is about finding balance. 

26:53
Jenelle Manzi
The balance between health and taste. 

26:54
Jenelle Manzi
And this was at a time where. 

26:57
Jenelle Manzi
The gluten free aisle was like in the back of the grocery store. 

27:00
Jenelle Manzi
No one could find it. 

27:02
Jenelle Manzi
And it was a little bit hard to find gluten free snacks. And so I wanted to create a space in a company that helped people find balance in order to live a. 

27:12
Jenelle Manzi
Healthful and active life. 

27:15
Jennifer Milner
Well, I think that's such an important point. First of all, you made so many good points right off. There is no one right way to do everything right, to get for healing, to treat your issues. Everybody's path is going to be a little bit different. And that's why it's so important to have a support team around you that can help you figure out what is right for you. And what may be right for you may not be right for the next person who is diagnosed with Eds. So it's so important to remember that each person's journey might look different. But the second point that you made about finding balance is so important as well. And I can't help but wonder what your journey would have looked like or how much longer it might have taken to reach that sweet spot if you hadn't had something else to pour into. 

28:05
Jennifer Milner
You found the idea of cooking and sharing and photography and had this passion that you could feed and find joy with while you were still trying to recover from your injury. And so many times, the people that we talk to, they say it's so important to have an identity outside of dance or skating or whatever it is that they do. So I think that too, is part of finding balance, that you have an identity now outside of I'm a dancer, right? You have so much more to you than that. 

28:34
Jenelle Manzi
What do you think about that? Did you see me? 

28:37
Jenelle Manzi
My nodding. 

28:38
Jennifer Milner
I can hear your head. 

28:40
Jenelle Manzi
I'm officially rocking, rocking and nodding. I am a huge proponent of a ballet dancer having a passion, a life, an identity outside of ballet. And I want to say I learned the hard way, I think many dancers do at some point in their career. I would hope that they don't, but we train our whole lives to do this one art. We start at a very young age. It takes a lot of discipline and it takes a lot of sacrifice. 

29:07
Jenelle Manzi
And in that, you lose out or. 

29:09
Jenelle Manzi
You miss out on different opportunities that you would normally have as a kid, as a college student, where you. 

29:16
Jenelle Manzi
Have maybe different Hobies and different groups. 

29:20
Jenelle Manzi
Of friends that might not be dancers. And I think when your ballerina identity is stripped from you, from, let's say. 

29:26
Jenelle Manzi
An injury, an illness, if you have something, you really have to think about what else you have. And I think that for me, because. 

29:36
Jenelle Manzi
I don't want to compare myself to anyone else. I definitely had, obviously, lots of friends outside of the ballet world, but I. 

29:42
Jenelle Manzi
Definitely think I could have had more passions as a young dancer, or maybe. 

29:49
Jenelle Manzi
It happened at the right time. Sometimes I think everything is a blessing. 

29:52
Jenelle Manzi
And I don't know. 

29:53
Jenelle Manzi
Simon's Neck talks about the finite mindset. 

29:55
Jenelle Manzi
And ballet you think about once you. 

29:59
Jenelle Manzi
Achieve something great, you achieve your dream. I got into New York City Ballet. I told my grandmother I wanted to dance in New York City Ballet when I was four. I don't know how, but it happened. And when you have that euphoric feeling of achieving your dream and then it's stripped from you, there is nothing worse. 

30:16
Jenelle Manzi
Than the feeling of that being stripped from you. 

30:19
Jenelle Manzi
And in order to balance that out. 

30:21
Jenelle Manzi
You have to have an identity outside. 

30:23
Jenelle Manzi
Of the industry, outside of ballet, to make you a fulfilled whole person, to live back to my point, a beautiful, joyful life. 

30:30
Jenelle Manzi
And I also have to admit to. 

30:33
Jenelle Manzi
Myself that this career isn't forever. And maybe it depends on what path. 

30:39
Jenelle Manzi
You want to take, but some people. 

30:41
Jenelle Manzi
Don'T want to teach ballet after their career is over. Some people do want to have another career outside in a completely different industry. 

30:49
Jenelle Manzi
And it's so important to make those connections, to make even to just tap. 

30:55
Jenelle Manzi
Into a different way of using your brain and your body. 

30:57
Jenelle Manzi
And I also think about just your. 

30:59
Jenelle Manzi
Own confidence toolkit and showing up in the studio. I think ballet, it's hard. It's a life in front of a mirror. It's a life in front of your. 

31:07
Jenelle Manzi
Colleagues, in front of an audience. It's tough. And we have this inner voice in. 

31:13
Jenelle Manzi
Our head saying, you need to turn out more. You need to point your foot. Oh, you didn't do that. 

31:16
Jenelle Manzi
Oh, he fell out of this. And I think it starts to weigh. 

31:20
Jenelle Manzi
On you a little bit. And I think having confidence in yourself in a different industry, in a different way of using and applying yourself is. 

31:28
Jenelle Manzi
Extremely important for you as a dancer, or was for me. I feel like I gained a whole new identity, I would say. I really think back to myself as. 

31:42
Jenelle Manzi
A young dancer training, and I had zero confidence. I was the one in the back. 

31:48
Jenelle Manzi
In the back by the door. Don't look at me. No, do not look. And it was through the injuries and. 

31:59
Jenelle Manzi
Studying and applying myself to different events. I mean, I showed up at everything. You name the free food event, I went to it founder event, went to. 

32:07
Jenelle Manzi
It capital, raising structure event went to that. 

32:11
Jenelle Manzi
And yeah, it was through all of. 

32:13
Jenelle Manzi
That that I felt out this new. 

32:15
Jenelle Manzi
Toolkit and it made me feel really excited and enlightened and passionate about something else outside of ballet. 

32:22
Jenelle Manzi
And obviously, when you're in it and you're midseason right now, ballet does feel a bit consuming. And I would be lying if that. 

32:34
Jenelle Manzi
At least doesn't sometimes feel like a reality where you really do have to plug in terms of understanding what. 

32:40
Jenelle Manzi
Exactly are the needs to make these. 

32:43
Jenelle Manzi
Rehearsals happen, to make the show happen. And it does require a lot of dedication, but you knowing that other. 

32:49
Jenelle Manzi
Side of you is there, it's comforting and it makes you whole and back to there is a reality that. 

33:00
Jenelle Manzi
Ballet identity can be struck from you at any moment. You can fall, you can get injured, you can get sick, you need to retire. 

33:06
Jenelle Manzi
I mean, it's a reality and it's. 

33:10
Jenelle Manzi
Really important to set yourself up for. 

33:12
Jenelle Manzi
Living a joyful life on your terms. 

33:15
Jenelle Manzi
Once that identity doesn't necessarily exist in. 

33:19
Jenelle Manzi
The way that you want it to. 

33:20
Dr. Linda Bluestein
I love the idea of the confidence toolkit. When I'm working with a client or a patient, I often talk about toolkits for, like, pain management, managing injuries or whatever, but I haven't really thought of a confidence toolkit before. And you're right. In ballet especially, we're constantly being told, you're never perfect, right? There's always more, give me more of this, give me more of that. Yeah. Every once in a while you might get thrown a compliment, but for the most part, your notes are going to be corrections, right. And whether it's in class or whatever. So I think that's really good and I think that's something especially for young dancers, that's really important for them to hear. 

34:02
Jenelle Manzi
Yeah, I wish. 

34:03
Jenelle Manzi
Luckily, luckily I had a very serious injury very early on in my career. 

34:08
Jenelle Manzi
Which was a blessing. 

34:09
Jenelle Manzi
But for young dancers, it is important because I think it'll set them up. 

34:12
Jenelle Manzi
For a much happier life, happier career. 

34:20
Dr. Linda Bluestein
And a lot of dancers, or a lot of people really wanted to know from you how you found that sweet spot of staying at an elite level of performance. Or coming back, I should say, to an elite level. Of performance because obviously, it sounds like it's really been a seesaw for you where you've had an injury and been out and then have come back how you've been able to do that and take care of your health. And I know you've talked about this in a couple of major journals recently. I think that you were interviewed both for Self magazine and Wall Street Journal, right? 

34:53
Jenelle Manzi
Yeah. 

34:53
Dr. Linda Bluestein
That's pretty amazing about yourself and your health and also your company, Get golden. But I think a lot of people would really like, a lot of younger dancers especially, were like, how does she do it? What are the secrets? And everyone's body is different, obviously, but we would love to hear how you figured that out. 

35:15
Jenelle Manzi
This is a complicated answer, but I think we go through waves and phases in our lives. 

35:21
Jenelle Manzi
And I know I may be speaking. 

35:22
Jenelle Manzi
To younger dancers, so these phases are probably just beginning. 

35:26
Jenelle Manzi
But there are times where you simply have to plug in and that means listing out what are my priorities, what. 

35:34
Jenelle Manzi
Do I need to accomplish. And I'm talking about, let's say, getting back on stage, getting back into the. 

35:40
Jenelle Manzi
Studio, being able to do a specific. 

35:43
Jenelle Manzi
Set of physical therapy exercises. 

35:44
Jenelle Manzi
I mean, the list goes from one. 

35:47
Jenelle Manzi
Extreme to the other. 

35:49
Jenelle Manzi
But I think when you have those specific types of goals, because if your. 

35:55
Jenelle Manzi
Goal is to get back on stage, performing, you really need to be realistic with yourself and figure out for your. 

36:00
Jenelle Manzi
Own body, what are the things that I need to do in order to accomplish this? 

36:05
Jenelle Manzi
And you have to be really honest with yourself. And this is where obviously, seeing your. 

36:11
Jenelle Manzi
Healers and your team of people to. 

36:15
Jenelle Manzi
Help because we can't do this on our own. But for me, it's always about finding balance. I mean, it's going to come up constantly, but finding balance in being a. 

36:26
Jenelle Manzi
Bit regimented and I hate that word. 

36:29
Jenelle Manzi
Maybe consistent is better, both of the words. 

36:32
Jenelle Manzi
I think regimented feels a bit rigid. I think consistency is a much better way to put that where you need to go back to that list of what you need to do in order to achieve what you want. 

36:50
Jenelle Manzi
And it might not be fun. I can't say that coming back from an injury is necessarily fun. 

36:56
Jenelle Manzi
I mean, you're jumping in a pool. 

36:58
Jenelle Manzi
You'Re learning how to walk, you're trying to do these stupid calf raises 50 million times. 

37:05
Jenelle Manzi
Oh my, sound like my dance. 

37:08
Jennifer Milner
More calf raises. 

37:09
Jenelle Manzi
But if that's what you want, a lot of things don't just TADA appear. 

37:16
Jenelle Manzi
It does take work. 

37:20
Jenelle Manzi
I would say that I go through. 

37:22
Jenelle Manzi
Phases where I have to take a step back, reassess and figure out what are my priorities at this given time in this phase and what are the steps and things that I need to. 

37:30
Jenelle Manzi
Do in order to make that happen. 

37:33
Jenelle Manzi
And then how do I balance that out and fill in those gaps with balance, with joy, with things that I'm passionate about? 

37:39
Jenelle Manzi
All the above. 

37:40
Jenelle Manzi
So for me, I definitely have a list of and I'm happy to list them out. I have a list of things that I know, especially right now, that make me feel like my strongest and best. 

37:49
Jenelle Manzi
Answer and that also help me recover. 

37:53
Jenelle Manzi
That have changed over the years. Because we all change and we get older, we grow, we get stronger in some areas, we get weaker in others. And it really is about just checking. 

38:03
Jenelle Manzi
In with yourself at a given time. 

38:06
Jenelle Manzi
And really just being honest. 

38:07
Jennifer Milner
And being honest is very important. And even as you said, your list changes over time, right? And that's important too. What worked for you five years ago may not be what works now. Your body circumstances might be different, your life circumstances might be different. Before we started talking for the interview, were talking about sort of your evening schedule and how that may or may not affect how you feel. And I think that's really important for other people to hear too. So however much control you have over your schedule, how does that help you, like with recovery, with rest and that sort of thing? 

38:44
Jenelle Manzi
I would say that I've learned a lot about recovery time, about how long my particular body needs to rest, how. 

38:55
Jenelle Manzi
Much I can push my body. And this is all very individual. So the amount of times your friend can rehearse a specific ballet, the amount of times your friend can do the jumping combination is not the same as you. And that's a lot harder when you're a student where you are trying to. 

39:10
Jenelle Manzi
Quote, unquote, train and quote, unquote, prove. 

39:14
Jenelle Manzi
Yourself, which is just a silly way. 

39:16
Jenelle Manzi
To look at it. And. 

39:21
Jenelle Manzi
I learned a lot about timing. 

39:22
Jenelle Manzi
And I think mostly I was bringing this up before where I have noticed. 

39:27
Jenelle Manzi
When you get out of a show very late at night, you feel much different the following morning having the show than if you didn't have the show, even if you had dance the same. 

39:36
Jenelle Manzi
Amount throughout the day. 

39:37
Jenelle Manzi
Let's say you had training class and then you rehearsed until 07:00 p.m and the rep was actually harder than the show. 

39:44
Jenelle Manzi
But for some reason, if you have. 

39:46
Jenelle Manzi
The show until 1030 and then you have to be back in the studio at 1030 the following morning, that turnaround. 

39:51
Jenelle Manzi
Time in body recovery, it feels different, it really does. 

39:57
Jenelle Manzi
Maybe it doesn't affect other people. Maybe this is age, maybe this is Eds. 

40:00
Jenelle Manzi
I'm not here to label anyone, even myself. 

40:04
Jenelle Manzi
I'm still figuring things out. But I can say this from experience where I have noticed how much fresher my legs feel, how much less inflamed things are when I wake up in. 

40:13
Jenelle Manzi
The morning when you're not dancing every single night until, let's say, 1015. 

40:19
Jenelle Manzi
Would I change it? 

40:20
Jenelle Manzi
No. 

40:21
Jenelle Manzi
Do I have the tools to help with the inflammation? Yes. Do I have to use them? Yes. 

40:26
Jenelle Manzi
And it's pretty remarkable if you think about it. How that shift? 

40:31
Jenelle Manzi
It's only, what, three, 4 hours? 

40:34
Jenelle Manzi
It's wild that affects the body so much, or at least mine. 

40:40
Jennifer Milner
And we talk a lot about how rest and recovery are so important and learning how artists don't always have control over their schedule. 

40:47
Jenelle Manzi
So whatever control you do have, taking. 

40:50
Jennifer Milner
Advantage of it and maybe after dance, not going and pounding the pavement to go shopping or going out and partying with your friends and giving yourself those times down when you can are so important. And it seems like you've done a really good job figuring out what works for you at this point in life and finding balance, like you keep saying, finding that balance for you. So I want you to write two letters or give out two sets of wisdom. What do you say to those younger ones who are starting to hit that wall of this is too hard. I don't know how I can do this anymore? And what do you want to say to your future self? So give us some advice backwards and forwards. 

41:31
Jenelle Manzi
I would say trust the process. Back to our earlier conversation. 

41:35
Jenelle Manzi
We're all dealt different cards, and your. 

41:38
Jenelle Manzi
Body is not like mine's not like yours isn't like your friends. 

41:41
Jenelle Manzi
And there are going to be moments. 

41:43
Jenelle Manzi
That are really low and really frustrating. 

41:45
Jenelle Manzi
And you really have to be honest and look inward and figure out what. 

41:51
Jenelle Manzi
Will make me feel like my best self. 

41:53
Jenelle Manzi
And sometimes that's rest. 

41:54
Jenelle Manzi
Sometimes that's working harder. Sometimes that's seeing a different healer. Sometimes that's seeing a different trainer. Sometimes that's hanging out with friends. Sometimes that's finding a passion outside of ballet. 

42:05
Jenelle Manzi
But you really have to accept the. 

42:08
Jenelle Manzi
Low moments, accept those feelings, work through those feelings, but then reach a point. 

42:12
Jenelle Manzi
Where you pull yourself out and only. 

42:14
Jenelle Manzi
You can really do that. 

42:15
Jenelle Manzi
And then part two, my future self. 

42:18
Jenelle Manzi
Okay, so this is not a quote. It's a word from one of my favorite childhood movies, the Polar Express. My family watched it every Thanksgiving since it came out. And it's just the word believe. And my mom, it's in our text thread. Me, my mom and my sister especially, we have this text thread and especially around Christmas, we always say it, but. 

42:35
Jenelle Manzi
I would tell my future self to believe. I've learned a lot in my many. 

42:42
Jenelle Manzi
Years with the company as a professional ballerina, battling various injuries and now building. 

42:47
Jenelle Manzi
A company and through the worst of. 

42:49
Jenelle Manzi
Times and the best of times, you. 

42:51
Jenelle Manzi
Just have to believe. That's what I would say. 

42:53
Jennifer Milner
We have covered a lot today and I'm so grateful for the time that you have spent talking with us and sharing sort of your experience within the bubble as a child, figuring out how to really thrive there and the whole act of finding balance within your life, within your career, within your illness or your injuries. Just sort of how to find that. Is there anything that we didn't discuss that you would like touch on? 

43:19
Jenelle Manzi
I think I just want to thank you both. I think many people would agree with. 

43:24
Jenelle Manzi
This, but finding your podcast really did change my life. It was a really dark time for me when I discovered it, and there. 

43:34
Jenelle Manzi
Were several episodes where I would just. 

43:36
Jenelle Manzi
Cry through it because I felt so frustrated that this was me. But it was working through that and feeling like I wasn't alone, that gave me hope. 

43:48
Jenelle Manzi
And I think what you both are doing is remarkable and just so important. 

43:52
Jenelle Manzi
To the dance community and beyond. 

43:55
Jenelle Manzi
I think there is so much research that needs to be done with Eds and who it affects and how it. 

44:00
Jenelle Manzi
Affects people and where things are going, and it's only going to get solved. 

44:06
Jenelle Manzi
Through both research and getting the word out there. And I wanted to thank you both for having me. 

44:10
Jenelle Manzi
It's an honor to speak on a podcast that I listened to for many moons and that's what I wanted to say. That's all I've got. 

44:20
Jennifer Milner
Well, we're happy with that. We'll let you say that. But I will make you say more. Where can people find you? Because I know a lot of people are going to want to reach out and find you and learn more about you and your company. 

44:33
Jenelle Manzi
You can find me. 

44:35
Jenelle Manzi
I need to post more. 

44:36
Jenelle Manzi
I'm going to have a new Eds tab officially. I need to figure out, oh, that would be awesome. I need to redo my highlights. They're very outdated, I know. Hopefully by the time this airs they won't be all weird. 

44:47
Jennifer Milner
It's so much work. 

44:48
Jenelle Manzi
I know, but it's necessary. And you can find me at Janelle manzi Jenelemanzi on Instagram and TikTok. I don't use that, but I do TikTok too. And my website for my company is getgoldin getgolden.com and Same for their Instagram. 

45:09
Jenelle Manzi
Excellent. 

45:10
Jennifer Milner
And we will have that in the liner notes as well of the podcast so people can be sure to be able to find you. You have been listening to Bendy Bodies with the Hypermobility MD. And our guest today is Janelle Manzie, professional ballet dancer with New York City Ballet and founder of Get Golden. Janelle, thank you so much for sharing your story and your journey and your words of wisdom and encouragement to all of our listeners. 

45:31
Jenelle Manzi
We really appreciate it. Thank you. 

45:34
Jenelle Manzi
It was an honor. 

45:35
Dr. Linda Bluestein
We feel so fortunate to get to chat with you and I know a lot of dancers and non dancers are going to really enjoy getting to hear your story and you're such an inspiration. So thank you. 

45:48
Jennifer Milner
Please help us spread the word about hypermobility and associated conditions by leaving a review and sharing the podcast. This really helps with podcast rankings and raising awareness about these complex conditions. If you love what you heard, follow the Bendy Bodies podcast. Start that second thing again. If you love what you learned, follow the Bendy Bodies podcast to avoid missing future episodes. Screenshot this Episode tagging us in your story so we can connect. Our website is WW bendybodies.org and follow us on Instagram at bendy underscore bodies. We love seeing your posts and stories, so please tag using hashtag bendybuddy. This information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. The information shared is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please refer to your local qualified health practitioner for all medical concerns. We will catch you next time on the Bendy Bodies Podcast. 

46:47
Jennifer Milner
If you love what you learned, follow the Bendy Bodies Podcast to avoid missing future episodes. Screenshot this Episode tagging us in your story so we can connect. Our website is WW bendibodies.org and follow us on Instagram at bendybodies. We love seeing your posts and stories, so please tag using hashtag bendybodies. Please leave a review and share the podcast to help us spread the word about hypermobility and associated conditions. This information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. The information shared is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please refer to a local qualified health practitioner for all medical concerns. We will catch you next time on the Bendy Bodies Podcast.