Yoga Warning: Are You Putting Your Joints at Risk? with Lara Heimann (Ep 114)

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Dr. Linda Bluestein: [00:00:00] Welcome back, Every Bendy Body, to the Bendy Bodies podcast with your host and founder, Dr. Linda Bluestein, the hypermobility MD. Today we'll be talking with Lara Heimann. Lara is a physical therapist and yoga instructor, and this is such an important conversation. I don't know if you're like me, but I tried yoga before and often found myself feeling more pain after taking a yoga class.

It is really hard for people with joint hypermobility to know if yoga is something that they should try or not. So I think this is going to be a really important conversation. Lara Heimann, physical therapist, yoga teacher, and creator of The Lit Method, received her education from Duke and Stanford universities.

After noticing a [00:01:00] void in the inclusion of anatomy in the Conversations of Yoga training, she began to refine the Lit Yoga method, combining physiology, kinesiology, neurology, and functional movement patterns to yield a more cohesive movement philosophy. The Lit Yoga method, in person trainings, have codified her technique that is now shared by hundreds of teachers around the world.

Additionally, Lara teaches international retreats, workshops, and festivals, and shares her passion for movement and wellness on the award winning podcast, Redefining Movement, with over 3 million downloads. I've been a guest on that podcast and can testify to what a great program it is. Lara is also a certified natural food chef and a certified holistic health coach.

Many people with joint hypermobility wonder if yoga is a good idea. Some people have had positive experiences, whereas others have not. What is a bendy person to do? As always, this [00:02:00] information is for educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for personalized medical advice. Be sure to stick around until the very end so you don't miss any of our special hypermobility hacks.

Here we go.

All right. Well, super excited to chat with Lara Heimann and want to hear from you why you created the lit yoga method. What was lacking in yoga teaching? 

Lara Heimann: Well, you know, it, I think that, um, I had, I try not use the word lacking, although it was lacking, right? I mean, there's, you know, it's never, um, a cut on anyone.

It's really the fact that I just happen to have more education. And when I, but even with my education, when I was teaching yoga, I started teaching yoga, um, almost 30 years ago. At the same time, I just graduated from graduate school for physical therapy. And I really kind of kept parallel lanes, um, thinking that yoga was in this metaphorical box that I shouldn't really mess with.

[00:03:00] Uh, it felt like it had like these kind of spiritual, um, boundaries that, you know, this is, this is the way you do it. And so I really taught like that. And, you know, it was kind of PT by day and then would come after the clinic and teach yoga. Um, so I did that for a number of years and, um, I, after I got my postgraduate, um, specialization in neurodevelopmental training, which is really like understanding how we can, um, optimize our neuroplasticity when there's been an injury to the brain, whether it's, um, via, you know, like a stroke or a traumatic brain injury and, and then working with patients who had had that and.

Really noticing how with intention, uh, postural training, repetition, um, lots of work on the floor, which is our development. I, I noticed huge changes in, in them. And I thought, well, why don't I just apply that to able bodied people that might have some [00:04:00] kind of imbalanced Most of us have some kind of imbalance because life is creates that.

And so I started merging that. And when I started doing that in my teaching, um, my clients were a little skeptical at first because it's like, wait, we're starting on the floor. We're doing all this stuff. And then within like a month, they were like, this is incredible. Why isn't everybody teaching this way?

And then, uh, probably about another year after that, they started telling me like, please don't go away because. we don't feel like we can go anywhere else or we'll get hurt. And these are like eight, you know, yoga practitioners strong. And I thought hurt, you know, cause I was kind of in my bubble and doing my own thing.

And then I realized, um, all during this time period, there was like this explosion of yoga. So this was anywhere between 1999 to 2005. explosion of yoga, yoga teacher training. And when you just kind of look [00:05:00] underneath the covers, what essentially the one monopoly of accreditation, um, accrediting agency was just letting kind of anyone conduct a teacher training and there really wasn't oversight.

So that is like the long answer is that there was not, there is a lot of people who are passionate about yoga, but they were not necessarily being trained in the how and why of the biomechanics and functional anatomy, which is kind of essential if you're moving the body. So you can only get away with like, Teaching and mimicking and instructing without deeper layers of understanding individual bodies, how not everybody can do this particular pose that you're asking them to and their endeavor to actually try and accomplish that might be injurious.

Not to mention frustrating. So that's really when I started to think, [00:06:00] okay, maybe I just need to, you know, use my background and teach teachers more about functional anatomy. And I had created like this blueprint for the lit method and I created a teacher training. And sure enough, I would say, you know, at this point we've, it's been around for about 14 years, the training.

The last five years we've had online and on just online alone, we've had a thousand people go through it. And of those people, I would say 70 percent are existing yoga teachers because they had gone through trainings and had gotten to that point where it's like, Oh, I can't answer the questions or I can't address, you know, individual bodies.

And that's where I really wanted to, to really get to is like, this needs to be available and accessible, truly. to as many people as possible. And you can't really do that if you don't have the knowledge about, again, biomechanics, functional anatomy, and, and how we need to move through [00:07:00] space with this, um, ultimate 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: goal of sustainability.

And I love that you're commenting already about the differences in bodies, because I think it's So, so important for people, even if they are hypermobile, to realize that all hypermobile bodies are not the same. They're very different. They're different at different points in time and they're different from each other.

There's such a huge amount of individual variation. So keeping all of that in mind, can you tell us some of the things that we should be thinking about? You know, should hypermobile people even consider practicing yoga in the first place? 

Lara Heimann: Well, it's so interesting. Before hypermobility syndrome had a label to it, I remember watching and I would say this in my teacher training long ago, I said, uh, the people that are really stiff, like, So, instruct them, but I wouldn't worry about them.

They have tons of information. The ones are in the corner that everybody is like, look at them. They're like [00:08:00] bending all like those people scare me because they are not getting any information from the brain or very little delayed information about where they are in space. And you of course know this to be true.

So that That decreased proprioception where you get the feedback, like so, uh, you know, somebody like my husband who is restricted, he gets feedback pretty easily. He starts to lean over and it's like, Ooh, my brain's telling me, Hey, that's, that's your in range. And there are ways to work with him to kind of override some of those, like very quick messages he's getting.

Well, hyper mobile people have usually the opposite issue. They don't have that information coming at all. So. What I have, I, I, if people love yoga, they have to look at it. Like, I just actually had a private yesterday with someone on the hypermobility syndrome. And, you know, she's now kind of not moving at all, which is terrible.

And, um, I told her [00:09:00] to talk to you, but you know, what I, what I said is you have to move, but you have to work on stability. Like first and foremost, you have to use feedback, whether it's your own hands. the wall, the floor. That's why the floor doing stuff on the floor is so great because you're getting not only a lot of feedback, but a lot of support to the center of your mass, which at that, and the center of gravity, which at that point is, is in your pelvis.

And if you can get some feedback into that, how to stabilize that, then you're more likely to have some, um, continuity and. that feedback coming up through the spine into the rib cage and shoulder girdle. But once you're bipedal and you're like, you know, all the flowy stuff we do in yoga, where you're only supporting yourself with your feet.

And then you've got this, for lack of a better word, like Gumby like person, you know, body, it's really tricky to get enough feedback [00:10:00] to stabilize in a meaningful way. Um, and of course, Many teachers are not going to, like, pay attention to that person. They're like, oh, they've got this. They're moving fluidly and not realizing that's actually The lack of, um, kind of motor response that they need.

So what I would say is if you're for anybody that is in the hypermobility syndrome, most likely, again, you already know you're not getting that feedback. Like you're already, whether it's lax connective tissue or proprioceptive diminishment or a combination, you need to really pull in. Minimize big ranges of motion and use as much feedback as possible.

So getting on the floor and getting a lot of feedback. So for instance, something like a bridge, like don't go all the way up and be thrusting your ribs and arching into like, stay really low, which actually is way superior. So it's kind of, we have to also Just reframe what is ideal in yoga for [00:11:00] so many years.

What was glorified and ideal are these advanced flexibility moves and, um, strength moves. And we have to just kind of reframe, like if you can kind of hold your shit together, you know, much better for, you know, that is ideal for anyone, but especially somebody that is, uh, continuing with some hypermobility issues.

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah. So it sounds like it's something that could benefit a lot of people, but wow, you have to approach it really in the right way. And trying to find an instructor who is going to take that kind of approach, of course, it's different if you are doing a private or something like that. But if you are thinking of doing group lessons, I guess, what would you tell people to look for?

Lara Heimann: Well, for instance, when I teach, um, I teach online. I have some online, like by Zoom, like we're doing kind of this now where I can see people. But even if I'm instructing just and I'm filming a class, I already [00:12:00] have in mind like all the possibilities. Somebody who might be trying to force in range, somebody who could go to in range with no problem.

And so say we're lying on our side and we're doing some thoracic rotation. I will specifically say, you know, move from your sternum. It's not about getting the arm all the way down. And if you know that you have hypermobility, you want to stay off, you know, really find your scapula and stay there. So I would first of all, look for somebody who is Giving multiple cues in a, um, in some kind of movement pattern that is addressing the different bodies and, um, neurological environments, you know, and I think that's probably I learned that so early on in PT.

It's like some, you know, there's everyone has those different starting points. So if you have, if you go to a class and they're just kind of telling you, You know, warrior two, reverse, go back, lean as far, you know, [00:13:00] those, if, if you're not getting some kind of, what, how do you want to hold yourself in the pose?

We have gravitational forces on us. Like that's easy. And for hypermobile people, their gravity and they're like, you know, their joints are just, and, um, neuro neurological system is just kind of letting go of that. So addressing. I address as much about movement, what shouldn't be moving or what we don't want to be moving as we want to be moving.

And so I think look for somebody who's giving a variety of cues and that always has this, what needs to be stabilizing for this, for the other parts that are moving. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah, I love that. That's great. Do you think that when it comes to yoga, that I guess if you were to lump together people who have, don't have hypermobility and people who do, um, do you think that both groups are going to benefit in overall, in general, the same?

Or do you think that [00:14:00] people with hypermobility actually could benefit even more from yoga? 

Lara Heimann: I think that, you know, it's hard to say who would benefit more, but they both can absolutely benefit. if it's positioned, you know, like if they're getting the education. So again, I had a retreat this, this spring and of their 40 people, two would fall in the hypermobility camp.

Fortunately, they were aware of that. Um, but you know, it's in a group setting. Sometimes you just have to keep coming back to like w the reminders of what is, what's going on. What is vital for you? And in, in this setting, in, in, in our kind of lit world, I think everyone feels very individualized and, and not competitive in terms of like looking around the room and like, Oh, well, this person's doing this, that, cause we use blocks, we use props.

It's like, these are all amazing ways to. Better connect to your core. That's kind of what it comes down to. So instead of collapsing in the pelvis to reach the hand [00:15:00] down, if you're in a lunge, how about put the block there and actually lift up. So there's always this energy coming to center. And so what I, what I will say is people in the, in hypermobility world in general will absolutely benefit.

as much, if not more, but they will have to work three times harder. And sometimes that's a hard pill to swallow. But I'm sure you know that, Linda, but it's like, you know, it is so much more repetition and Um, finding those nuances than somebody who is, is not, it just, and so everyone benefits in that kind of equal spectrum, but the, but people with hypermobility in general, it's, they have to just know it takes time.

It's going to take. So much time and repetition and it's worth it, you know, but it's, um, it's really, it's challenging. It's challenging. Cause you just feel [00:16:00] noodley, you know, it's like, uh, you, you know that. So it's really just like over and over. But once you get that feedback. More and more 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: it does pay off for sure.

That's really fascinating because like you said, uh, so many people think that the bendiest people are the ones that are, you know, the best at yoga or, you know, so it's really, really ironic. And I, when I'm talking to my patients or my clients, um, oftentimes they've told me of their incredible successes that they had at yoga and, you know, they were like the considered the star student or whatever.

So I think that's, um, Would you say that that's, I don't want, I don't know if I want to use the word red flag, but, you know, if a teacher is kind of, you know, pointing to those students in the room and, and pointing them out to other people, like, is that something that people should say? Hmm. I wonder if this is, um, the, the best environment for me to be learning yoga in.

Lara Heimann: I would say, absolutely. I mean, I, you know, I [00:17:00] want to cheer people on. I want to encourage them. I want to give them educational cues, but. Um, I can't remember a time where I was like, wow, look at this per, you know, like really, um, this kind of, you know, and then that's, that's happened so much in this kind of visual world, whether it's a yoga magazine cover, which has gotten better, um, or Instagram or whatever these, these, these kinds of accolades and adoration for these extremely bendy things.

I think more people do see that and be like, okay, that person just naturally kind of has some, you know, ability to do that. Um, and I just stay away from ever think ever mentioning, like, this is your goal, like to be able to fully extend your back in, in a wheel. It's, it's always, I think it's a red flag. If somebody doesn't speak to again, [00:18:00] um, where you want to stabilize.

and the feeling you want to have in it. Like you want to feel like you're always in control of your body versus when you kind of flop into something. And I'm sure you've probably felt this. Yeah. Yeah. Like you can go into these big ranges of motion, but how do you come out of it? Are you able to, without this feeling of like, you know, again, that you've kind of become this wet noodle?

It's really, I would look for those lags where it's, it is like, you know, Some of the, um, people teach peak poses, for example. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but even the terminology of that, I always kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Like we're going to go up and here's this peak pose. And by the way, 5 percent of you might be able to do it, right?

So I just feel like it's so much, so much more impactful to tell, to really educate and empower people how to move their body through space so that they can actually take that out into the world. It's [00:19:00] not about individual poses, accomplishing them. So I think that, um, really good teachers, even if they don't necessarily have as much functional anatomy background, know that there are limitations on teaching that, but are going to give you other things to think about, uh, maybe philosophy or whatever, but it's never about this idealization 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: of 

Lara Heimann: a 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: look of a pose.

It's an amazing combination that you're a physical therapist and a yoga instructor. That's, I think that's such a great combination. Um, in what ways do you think that you're experience and education as a physical therapist and then of course, you know, your post graduate education as well. Um, what are the ways in which you feel like that has informed your development of the lit method and your teachings?

Lara Heimann: I mean, it's, it's really everything. It's like, cause, and it's interesting. I think, um, we all, I'm not saying other people, but everyone is a little comfortable with bucketing things. And so [00:20:00] people will still to this day be like, Oh, do you do physical therapy? And I'm like, I do, Like, to me, it's, I have enhanced being a movement specialist by taking these different disciplines and then combining them in a way that brings out the best of each of them.

So with physical therapy, you know, um, it's amazing, but if you go into a clinic, you're very limited, um, to what you can usually offer an individual based on insurance and whatnot. It's like, it's almost kind of like. Let's take the parts. Here's your shoulder. You came for your shoulder. I've got to address your shoulder.

Right. I'm not going to necessarily be able to address your pelvis or your foot or your neck or like something else that might really be the actual cause of the shoulder stuff. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: And 

Lara Heimann: so, but there's so much amazing therapeutic modalities we use in physical therapy, you know, whether it's Um, actual mobility of the joints, learning how to become more pliable in the tissues.

If that, is that something you need, [00:21:00] um, to get that flexibility of overall, you know, joint movement. And then there's, you know, core training, there's, um, There's balance training, proprioceptive training, functional performance. So those are all terms that weren't really part of the yoga lexicon. And by bringing them into yoga, I feel like it re you know, like I, I talk about what lit is, is really bringing the mindfulness of yoga together with the intelligence and physical therapy.

That isn't to say yoga wasn't intelligence, but that definitely wasn't the, you know, it's, it's strongest feature. Um, it makes people feel like they're going inward. They're coming home to themselves, but What I wanted to say is, Hey, I can even teach you a, like a deeper layer. This is it's information that you probably didn't get.

And it's really unfortunate. We didn't get it in school. Like knowing about our body, it's the longest relationship we'll ever have. And unless you go to [00:22:00] medical school or PT school, you're probably not getting that information. And I'm going to just let you in and you don't have to have an advanced degree to have ownership over your own body.

So that. All of that kind of ed. So for me, it being a physical therapist, one of the biggest things is, is being an educator because our hope is that somebody would come, they have a, you know, some kind of injury or issue or, and we're trying to help them. And then knowing that like, they're going to go home.

And whether it's from a rehab setting or an outpatient setting, we want them to take this information and apply it and bring it into their lives. And that, I bring that sensibility. Absolutely. And so every class. It feels like a workshop in the sense that we're getting the movement practice in, but we're, I'm layering the education.

And I feel like that's super vital because, um, again, most people don't have the opportunity for that information being, um, you know, relate to them at [00:23:00] any point in their life. So all of it is, Is in informs lit for sure. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: And, and I'm glad you brought up about insurance because, uh, that is such a huge problem in our, they're 

Lara Heimann: huge.

Dr. Linda Bluestein: So in our medical care, uh, period, and I was thinking of, uh, writing a post about, uh, healthcare is great unless you need it, . You know, it's like, yeah. It's like, it's like easy to say oh's. It's, it's fine. But then when you need it, it's like, actually, it's not so great. And, and you're absolutely right. I've been in and out of physical therapy since I was about 16.

Yeah, probably more in than out. Um, and, and, and you're right about the limitations when you're working, um, through your insurance. And I was going to a physical therapist and they stopped taking my insurance, but I really liked my physical therapist. So I continue to go to her and, and pay cash for that.

But it's nice because now, since we're not going through insurance. You know, she can address my body in a more holistic way and, and that kind of thing, because yeah, you're right. Those, [00:24:00] those are definite problems that we encounter with the insurance system. 

Lara Heimann: Oh, totally. And I, and early on working with so many neurologically impaired patients, I really learned how to write the things that the insurance company needed to hear.

Um, but, but like, Being truthful with what I was doing, but I was doing a lot more and this is like what they need to hear. What's the function? How are their function improved? But I'm working on all these other elements. So I've kind of, I learned like that. So even if I saw somebody in outpatient clinic, I would do all the things and then I would make sure I measured whatever needed to be measured, but you're limited on time.

And so I've worked for myself for, um, you know, decades now, like, you know, probably 10 years of working in a clinic and 20 years not. And that's because I just, like, I can work with somebody one or two times and have way more impact than the [00:25:00] 10 times that we get in, um, a clinic because I'm not limited by what the insurance says.

Says, or the many other people that I'm also seeing at the same time. . Right, right. . 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah. Yeah. We, we won't even go into the , the other problems that are associated, uh, for sure. So I asked people to submit questions and also, uh, for this conversation, and I got some really great, uh, questions. One of them was, what do you recommend for people?

whose pain is poorly controlled. 

Lara Heimann: Meaning that like they'll have pain and nothing can really take it away or they aren't, they do something and that provokes pain and they, but they don't, they don't really have a handle of like, what is the, what control, like what, what, um, kind of levers are being pulled in that way.

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah. I think that what the person was referring to is, you know, if your pain is poorly controlled, what do you do in terms of, in terms of movement specifically? 

Lara Heimann: [00:26:00] Yeah, that's really tricky. And you know, I'm always fully disclosed. Like that's why I recommend you a lot with to my clients, because I'm like, I can only tell you from my perspective of understanding it intellectually, but I haven't experienced it.

And I know even the experience of it is different for every, you know, their hypermobility syndromes, different, um, phases of it, or what stages or all kinds of it are being discovered. So what I typically will tell people is. Let's, you know, go towards stability, but don't not move because we have to, we have to give your brain, we have to give more input to have a different output.

And there, I think it's still unknown exactly why pain response is so much greater sometimes when you have a connective tissue disorder or hypermobility disorder. But my instinct, and this is what I've done when I've worked with people, is that, that it's some kind of stress response along with that.

Just, [00:27:00] um, it's not in the normal response to, to movement, let's say. So some of it is, I would say like a, try not be afraid of moving because that's really hard when you have that anticipatory pain. I've seen it with chronic pain, regional syndrome. It's really like, it's all part of that. Miss firing, so to speak.

So, but also give yourself more things to help you. So that might be like, if you wake up, so I have people who wake up with next stuff was a lot. So we talk about pillow and positioning. We talk about what. Is there something that they can wear that throughout the day that helps them, you know, because you know, like the feedback of whether it's, um, whether it's KT tape or some kind of splint or some kind of extra corseting that can give that, okay, I'm stable and I'm all right, can really help.

So I think And then learning how, when you're in that mode of [00:28:00] pain, like what are some techniques that could redirect your brain? So a lot of it is like, there's a CEO up here and how do we, how do we like, I don't want to say manipulate, but how do we know like, okay, I'm just going to give you a different circus to play with over here.

So you're not so everything's going into this kind of pain signaling. So it could be whether it's, Rubbing or tapping or, you know, um, focusing on leaning against, like, I had one woman who I just kind of was out of ideas and I thought she just needs more like information. So I just had her leaning against a wall and try and breathe into her back because she couldn't really find that, that 360 breath.

And just that feeling. Focus of like, okay, I'm on the wall. I have points of contact with the wall. And now I'm just going to actually try and push my breath into the wall. It just gave her brain another avenue to go down. So those are some of the techniques that, um, that have [00:29:00] seemingly worked in, in that, like when you just can't figure out how to, where the pain is going to come when it's going to leave and just managing your, as much as you can about your nervous system response to it.

Yeah. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: It's fascinating that you picked that example because I have been struggling off and on with actually, it's really interesting that all of the examples you've used so far, because I'm in physical therapy for my shoulders, but I'm also dealing with, you know, neck and I woke up this morning with my neck, in fact, I've been like doing this a little bit trying to, and, and so it's funny that you picked those as an example and I, you know, sometimes you people talk about the schneck.

Right, the shoulder and the neck complex because they are so closely related, like the hips and the spine and, you know, trying to sort those things out. And so having a more holistic approach, I think is so, so beneficial. And I want to take a quick break. And when we come back, we are going to talk about stretching because this is such an [00:30:00] important topic and I know a lot of people had questions about stretching, so we'll be right back.

All right, we are back and we got so many questions about stretching also for people with hypermobility. And so I would love to know if you have like do's and don'ts for stretching and yoga for people with hypermobility or what your thoughts are on that. 

Lara Heimann: Yeah. So I think again, there are so many different, um, you know, variety of hypermobility, but in general.

I recommend first, I think, think of like taffy. Okay. If you, if you pull taffy, it's going to stretch, but you have to have like a hand that's holding to actually get that pull. So your elasticity or your viscosity or whatever that taffy like is pretty probably going to be pretty easy to pull. So counter it.

Now I know that so many people with hypermobility feel like they need to stretch because there's [00:31:00] a lot of muscle tension because your poor brain's like, wait, I need you to stabilize here more. And then you're like, Oh, but I can stretch. And it's like this. So it's give your brain like the peace of mind that you're actually feeling.

So whatever you're going to stretch, Think of as much countering that. So for instance, if you were doing like a, um, you know, in some kind of side bending where your arm is going up and shoulder flexion, and then you're moving in the ribs. Instead of like collapsing on the bottom side, can you lift into the top side and really hold that arm like a lot of tone in the arm.

So it's like getting out al dente, you know, as opposed to like floppy. So every time and keep, and keep reminding yourself that the reason you feel tension is because you need more stability. It's not because you need To stretch the tissue, that doesn't mean that stretching isn't going to feel good and be valuable, [00:32:00] but your stretching is not the same as other people's stretching.

You're going to focus on how to hold against a moving part and not just, and then also think of gravity is going to make you stronger. So don't succumb to gravity, whatever you're doing, whether it's your hinging forward or side bending, you're always trying to think of moving against gravity and not letting it.

You know, um, take you, let you collapse. So stretching, and I try and think about this for anyone because stretching is not about collapsing into joints. It's about having a strong, um, stability, a place, an anchor from which you are trying to get the tissue to release if it is restricted and just keep reminding yourself that you.

That feedback is not, is not the same for other, like, even if it feels like, I'd rather you rub an area that feels tense than try and [00:33:00] really stretch it. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: And is it possible to have areas that are tense? overly flexible and areas that are overly tight within the same body? 

Lara Heimann: Yes. Yeah. So someone can have, you know, one is just the way, you know, the design of the human body.

So the shoulders for some people could be hypermobile, like just because they, there is a lot of intrinsic, just the structure of it. You've got a shallow, um, smaller socket and a big humeral head. And that allows for a lot of mobility. Any place where you have a good amount of mobility, there is an exchange.

There's a trade off for stability. So I can see people with a lot of mobility and their shoulders, there's too much mobility. And then there are, you know, hips are much more restricted and tight, and then they can even get more hypermobile in their shoulders by moving their ribs and their pelvis [00:34:00] and not really moving in their hips.

So there's a lot of examples where there can be joints that are, you know, very mobile. And then the, then there's ones that are kind of less mobile. Um, but yeah. Similarly, someone might be really loosey goosey in their hips and restricted in the thoracic spine. So, you know, it kind of, um, depends on the person and what they've emphasized doing, but it is absolutely possible to have all those.

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah, and I went through a period in my life because I had so much pain in my, uh, in the backs of my legs. And so I just completely stopped stretching my hamstrings or any, anything like that. And now I'm just so incredibly tight. If we go prolonged periods of time without stretching, like now I do some nerve glides and things like that, but I mean, I used to, as a ballet dancer, I mean, I used to be so, so incredibly, um, flexible and hypermobile.

And, and now it's, it's incredible how [00:35:00] tight certain parts of my body are. So if we don't stretch at all, um, are there consequences to that? 

Lara Heimann: Well, I would say, again, this is where just understanding some principles of biomechanics. that obviously might have some, you know, neurological differentiation with people with hypermobility, but the hamstrings, for example, like, Hey, I would much rather have somebody who feels tight in their hamstrings and they're not stretching versus, but they work on strengthening and stabilizing their pelvis because the hamstrings feeling tight.

Versus actually being restricted or different. Like I, I wouldn't say I ever sit down and stretch my hamstrings, but dynamically I'm moving them. And that's because these are spring muscles, just like our calves. Like they need, they need length, but they have a lot of coil to them. And because of the, the, the way the muscle fibers run, they're sagittal plane.

And so if you. [00:36:00] Pull them too much. Like they need to have this spring to them. That's what helps us bend our, bend our knee and project us forward. But, you know, if you're tight in your back fascia, that can be really problematic because it can pitch your pelvis forward, it can restrict your shoulder, um, and it doesn't, it also doesn't feel great.

So I think it's also important to know that muscles are the same, but fascia overlying them is what makes them feel tight or not. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: It's 

Lara Heimann: like a saran wrap. So I like to think, okay, if you're chronically feeling like a lot of back tension, what is happening that makes that saran wrap kind of cling versus be, be able to glide around because Vasha has this gliding principle.

You want to feel like your skin could slide over the underlying stuff. And if it doesn't feel like that's happening, that's probably because there's stickiness in the fascia. And, you know, more and more, the research is showing like static stretching, isn't [00:37:00] changing that what changes it is the biomechanics.

So it's gotten that way. from postural imbalances, you take those postural imbalances and then you move. And that's one reason I, another reason I created lit was I saw in yoga classes, you'd come in off the street, you'd have these kind of imbalances, whatever it is. And then you start moving and you're just kind of moving in those imbalances and maybe bringing them up, but also exacerbating the alignment because you're just like those muscles that are already kind of clean.

are more ready to fire as well, because they're already in more of a kind of shortened position. So the, we start in lit by resetting kind of the plate, you know, the whole gamut, like the, again, the environment from which you can start to change. Um, long term and that's the way I think. So when I, that's a long answer, but stretching, you need, you need [00:38:00] to reestablish your most optimal posture, which is a spectrum and then move the joints.

without compensating, meaning thrusting your ribs or rounding your back or whatever it is. And those little changes are what will actually change the long term feeling of being tight. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: I love that you start out that way in, in lit. Um, how do you do that? 

Lara Heimann: So, um, this really, again, comes back to the, um, my, my specialty and neurodevelopmental training.

If you think of, uh, If you've ever, if you've had a child, if you've witnessed a child, you, you know, there's developmental stages and that's really where the baby comes out. They're super floppy and then they start to develop, um, the really the muscles closest to the bones to start stabilizing them. And then activating some of the muscles that help them lift their head, roll to the side, you know, roll on their back, come around onto [00:39:00] all fours.

So all of those developmental stages in between them are, is when your brain is growing dramatically. So much growth between, you know, zero and two years old because of movement. Movement actually is really growing the brain, the exploration, and that movement is also, um, growing your connection to the, the motor coordination and muscle firing.

So when people, when kids aren't, hitting those developmental stages. That's where there's always a concern because there's the brain body coordination is really important. So we just go back through that again. Why? Because it's hardwired in our brain. It's a way of resetting, um, our movement pattern, our posture.

And we do it on the floor because again, like I said earlier, that feedback from the floor, you got so much response because we've got gravitational forces and then we've got the responsive ground reaction force. So these energies are there. Coming through our body. And we have a lot of [00:40:00] support for our center of mass pelvis and at that point center of gravity as well.

So we can get that feedback. So for instance, if somebody is coming into a low bridge, like I was talking about, I really, and I know that they're really like forehead head, the rest of the ribs, we have hands on your front ribs, anchor them down. So that you're brought back ribs are broadening and then lift your hips.

People are like, Oh, those are my glutes. They're so used to their ribs, thrusting in all of their activities, whether it's a squat, hip hinge, lunge, anything that they're using their back all. And it's all one big slab of connective tissue, but the, you know, the back gets really tight. And then where do they feel it?

Feel it in the hamstrings. But it's actually because their glutes are underperforming. The back stays really restricted and the hamstrings are like, help me. I'm trying to help the pelvis. The glutes are the best thing to stabilize the pelvis. So we get on the ground because we want to immediately [00:41:00] recruit these muscles that The deep abdominals, the ones that support the low back from inside, right?

We want to get the glutes working. They're so important because they not only move and extend the hip, externally rotate it, but they stabilize the pelvis. And people don't stabilize the pelvis well. And that's when you run into like a lot of kind of, and I mean, loosey goosey shifting. You can't, you know, standing on one leg.

Can you stand on one leg without shifting your pelvis? And that's all the gluteal complex coming on. So we do that on the ground because you have a lot of support. You have a lot of feedback and then you are changing your, the habit. Because you're changing the, what's called the motor recruitment and coordination, because when you've been on this track, it's like listening to the same song every day, your entire life.

Like, it's really hard to get off, you know, when you've had a song and you're like, I can't get this out of my head. Well, it's, you can't get it out of your head [00:42:00] because you have to bring in a different input. So you would change the song, right? Well, we changed the recruitment. By giving ourselves a fighting chance, you know, like get, this is how you set yourself up for success.

So we start that and then we go into bigger movement patterns, but we build, build 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: off from the ground up. Yeah. I really love that because, you know, we, we all know what our own body feels like. Yeah. And we don't necessarily know what we're doing that is not helping us. Like you said, we don't come with an owner's manual or something that, you know, no matter how much education we have, you know, if you go to look in the mirror, right, as soon as you go to look in the mirror, you've changed the way you're standing anyway, or the way you're.

Doing whatever movement that it is. So I think that's so important because otherwise we keep doing those things that reinforce those suboptimal patterns. 

Lara Heimann: Yes. And you just need, you need different [00:43:00] input into the brain. And so for anyone, but hypermobility, um, syndrome, expect people. To, you know, just anyone who's like wanting to work on posture, you need just more feedback mechanisms.

So using the ground, using blocks, using the wall, we do a lot of stuff where, you know, you can try this where you stand next to the wall, your right side, right shoulders close to the wall, you extend your right hand. So your right hand is pressing into the wall. You grow your spine tall and you try and lift your right knee and hip flexion and all that stuff.

is done and you will feel like this activation and even, even in the people that are the least connected, feel it, but you have to do those things. Cause it's like, you've got to burn some of those signals in. They just 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: don't come on right away. I think that's fascinating because there are probably certain exercises that you can give people who feel like they are very fit, but you could probably give [00:44:00] them some pretty simple exercises I would imagine that they really struggle with.

Lara Heimann: Yes. I mean, I was just teaching a corporate class yesterday and it was like a lot of men, it was actually all men, but you know, they were relatively fit and stuff. And we just had, I had them in quadruped and just, Take one arm off the floor, almost like a bird dog. And it was just, and I said, don't move anything else.

Like, and it was like quivering. And I say that quivering is awakening. Like, don't think of it as being weak. It's like, Oh, because we have muscles that are close to the bones. Those are called your proximal muscles, postural muscles, core muscles. Some there's some crossover between all that. And then the other layers of the muscles, we get into these big mover muscles.

And. People like I work with professional athletes, they have the same thing. It's the balance between being able to stabilize in the proximal and being able to move depending on the force demand, um, of those mover muscles. Um, if it's [00:45:00] not balanced in a way that the body feels really comfortable with, you, you create this imbalance and that's when it feels.

Restricted or whatever, or maybe even injurious. Then you go into those proximal muscles and you're not even doing that much. You just add, boom, I'm going to add like longer lever, gravity on that longer lever, and telling you not to move anything. And all of a sudden it's like, whoa, all those muscles close to the bones are like, Oh, we're, we're coming on.

We're coming on. Um, cause there's a lot of ways to execute a movement. If I just say lift one arm and stay in quadruped, but if I say, I want you to reach that arm forward and not have anything else move and really hold towards your spine, like draw everything to the spine to not move there, it's very 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: different.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That makes, that makes sense. And I'm so glad that you've mentioned several times about the pelvis because a lot of people do have pelvic pain, low back pain, hip pain, so many things that can be [00:46:00] related there. And I know one of the things that I think is interesting to discuss is the SI joint, right?

So, because, you know, we're taught that there's like almost no movement in the SI joint, but we know that there is some, and in people that are hypermobile, there's, you know, More than just some, and um, so what are your thoughts about yoga or the LITT program for people that have a hypermobile SI joint?

Lara Heimann: Yeah, so for, and, and really I would say anyone with hypermobility, I think you're kind of the exception because in general, if people keep their pelvis in a stable, neutral position for most of the time. And I really say that most of the time, the only time I think of like purposely moving the pelvis is when I actually have some more support, say quadruped.

Cat cow because I've got support from for the center of mass, which is the pelvis, and I'm tipping it and I'm just feeling it. It'd be able to move. It should be able to move. And it doesn't mean I don't, you know, [00:47:00] unintentionally or whatever, move it during the day. But my intention is to keep it neutral.

Neutral means that the, the area, the joint, Surfaces between two bones, um, are, are maximal. So there's like congruency, the energy efficiency is there. It puts less strain stress on the, um, uh, surrounding tissues. So when somebody has SI joint pain, the first thing I look at is are they tipping their pelvis?

And that's often the case. So for us, for this is where it doesn't matter if you are hypermobile or not. This, the case. You need to be more vigilant when you're hypermobile because you can actually, um, have more, um, mobility there because where the sacrum and ilium come together at the SI joint is really not the same as like, uh, other bones that come together.

It's really gotten its stability through just a dense [00:48:00] overlying and connecting fascia and ligaments and stuff like that that keeps it really. stable. But when you don't have that same stability inherent, um, in those ligaments and surrounding fascia, then it is, you're going to get more movement there. So it is even more incumbent that you stabilize the pelvis.

So one cue that I give a lot, that's I think pretty simple for people to feel is if you take your fingers one inch above the pubic bone in front, And they're just kind of pressed in toward the body, like your second and third finger. And just imagine like a string pulling straight back and you're firming though, it's almost like an elastic band that you're trying to cinch together.

So it's not sucking the belly in, it's, it's really deep and it's going inside the bowl of the pelvis and getting at the very bottom of the sacrum. So stabilizing there helps the pitching of the pelvis. Like if you do that, it's really hard. To let that [00:49:00] anterior tilt happen because you're getting from deep within and below, and it's way that we can connect again using our hands.

So I would say, especially in yoga, but any kind of movement practice, even walking around and standing, where is your weight distributed through your feet? Cause that will often tell you a little bit about where you're safe, where your pelvis is. And if your pelvis is tipped in either way, it is going to impact your SI joint.

more than it would others because the SI joint is really quite dynamically stable unless you, you know, it's not. And then it's also, it's a shock, it's an area of shock absorption. So we need that stability there to take the energy from the floor up through into the core. If it's bonging around, that's not a very good shock absorption.

So again, that, that kind of energy that would be distributed through this shock absorption place, it's getting it. Like leaked. [00:50:00] And then all the area, all those tissues around it are like, they're probably going to be very, um, not so happy about that. So it's, it's not so simple, but it's something that if you repeat over and over again and get really vigilant, it 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: can help a lot.

And I love that because so many people have pelvic pain. I feel like that's just super, super common. And, um, You know, a lot of times they'll try pelvic floor PT, which can be really beneficial, but some people cannot access it in their area, and you know, of course, with the programs that you have, you have a lot of online resources, so is that something that, uh, the programs that you have, is that something that would be appropriate for somebody who has pelvic pain?

Lara Heimann: Yes. And we actually have, um, on our platform, pelvic PT, um, who have pelvic PTs, several of them who have created programs, um, for pelvic instability, for pelvic pain, for, uh, you know, the whole gamut, um, [00:51:00] and any stuff, anything inside the pelvis, Is impacted by the position of the pelvis. It's, you know, it's as simple as thinking about you've got a bowl and it's just not, it's tilted.

And so where is the pressure going? Where is that? Where are the contents going? Where there's an imbalance there. So when you have imbalance and it's repeated over and over again, something has to take up that, the imbalance. So if you're pitching forward, you're. Extensors on your spine are kind of wee, wee, you know, and then that's going to put a different, um, low down through the pelvic, not only just the pelvic floor, but the pelvic wall muscles.

Um, you, you get some of those deep external rotators like obturator and torrent. I mean, these are become very, very restricted and tight because they are trying to hold it. Cause the P, it's like, again, the reins are like, Oh, where are you going? And they're just like constantly trying to give that, um, Feedback backwards.[00:52:00] 

And whenever you get into those muscles that are really near the bottom of the pelvis, the pelvic floor can be impacted. That can impact, of course, uh, the, you know, pelvic pain during, during at any time, but, um, during sexual intercourse, during urination, it can impact your leaking. It can impact like the tightening when you have tightening in the, in the, um, pelvic floor, it's often correlated to, you know, clenching in the jaw, but all of that is coming from imbalance.

So like, does we got to go to the root and think what is imbalance and how do we help that? So this other thing, um, down, you know, down the chain is not impacted in the same way. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: I don't know about you. I don't know if you've, if you've witnessed this or not, but I actually have worked with quite a few young people who are experiencing some significant complications related to hypermobility.

And you talked a little bit earlier about fear of movement and [00:53:00] kinesiophobia. When I first learned that term, I realized, oh my gosh, that's what's happened to me. And it helped me to understand that. I needed to start to move better and then move more and do it in a way that, you know, I had a, I had a great physical therapist who helped me to understand that I needed to do it in a way that my brain felt safe.

Lara Heimann: Yes. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: What would you say to these people who are, you know, I mean, like I said, some of them are, are so young and, um, it's, it's so sad and worrying because they are spending more and more time maybe in bed or, you know, they're just not very, And it's hard because they're getting these signals that feel like they're coming from the body.

And so it's like, well, maybe if I move less, this'll be better. But we know that's not really the case, but you know, do you have any other thoughts about people in that kind of situation? 

Lara Heimann: Yeah. I mean, I think approaching it like. First of all, you're not alone. Like every, there's many [00:54:00] people that have wastes in their head.

That is their brain in some way, giving that, um, that changes that conversation and that conversation, whether it's anxiety, whether it's depression, whether it's like fear of movement, like it's all, um, something is spinning out. And it results in having a very real story. It's not that it's not real because there can be evidence to it, right?

There can be evidence to having anxiety. Like this is what happens when I have it, or this is what happens when I move. And it's so it's, some of it is like saying, let me befriend you and realize that I'm actually, we're working together, like the movement. is medicinal. But to your point, not all movement is going to be equal, especially if in these cases.

So let's figure out movement that is going to help your brain understand that we're trying to stay, you know, balanced and healthy [00:55:00] and energized because not moving is stagnant and like every system in our body, you know, benefits from movement. And that includes the mental. So it's like, we need to get some other, the arsenal in the brain, those neurotransmitters working for us, knowing that there is going to be that part that is That is speaking.

And we're just trying to get to speak, not as loudly. So again, it could be any of the things that like we have in our head on a loop and it's like, we put in other things. So it's like, and then eventually we'll actually believe it. So some of it is I tell people you might, you're, your thoughts right now, aren't going to believe this to be true.

And you can find the evidence that supports whatever you're thinking. all the time. And what I'm going to ask you to do is say, [00:56:00] this part of you that is new, that needs to move, um, just speak to it kindly and try and not let the other stuff drown out and then move again in a way that feels safe. So it could be, Hey, how about taking a walk?

And when you're walking, just how much can you lift up and not let gravity sink you down so that you're giving even those little things. When I tell somebody like, try and make your spine taller, just the thinking of in the brain is going in some way. Connect a little bit into those muscles and then you can always tap more or you could use a corset or things like that that give you that experience.

So start with something like that because you need to get moving so that you feel the benefit, even if you also feel some pain. Because that pain is not necessarily real, like tissue damage pain, it's the perception of it. And so we have to just work within that comfort. But I think it's just. I think it's [00:57:00] important just to be like, Hey, everybody has, can have different elements of this.

You're not alone. This is your expression of this imbalance and what your brain is telling you. And we just need you, we need to give your brain something else to think about. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I, I talk a lot about hurt versus harm, like, okay, this might hurt, but is it actually harmful?

Exactly. Definitely not, not always, but paying attention to, okay, that time I really overdid it. And you know, so that, that was a lesson. And rather than beating yourself, because that's the other thing is I think people beat themselves up for, you know, Oh, I, I sh I should, I should do this. I should do that.

And so that can be really, really helpful. challenging as well. 

Lara Heimann: Yeah. Just, yeah. Trying to also just be really tender with yourself 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: and 

Lara Heimann: be like, cause you know, at the end of the day, you're listening to your thoughts. more than anyone else. So let's try and be gentle and, um, encouraging. [00:58:00] 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: And we like to end every episode with a hypermobility hack.

Um, do you have a hypermobility hack for us? 

Lara Heimann: Um, one that has worked quite well besides the stuff on the floor. So I would say definitely get on the floor. Um, think of doing like So modified side plank is an example. I have several people with a lot of hypermobility in their shoulders that translates into a lot of neck stuff and all that.

And so actually giving a one pound weight or a can or something that's again, feedback, think of it as not like I'm trying to get strong. Think of it as a lightweight that's trying to give you more proprioception. And that has been great because It could be more weight. I'm not saying, but start off that.

So you like, try this today for your neck. Like, if you have a hand on the floor, you don't even have to be on, on the floor. You could do it right at your desk and have just like one, you know, one pound or something like that. And do [00:59:00] some small circles where the shoulder is creating the spinning. There's not any moving forward or back and then circle the other way.

Um, doing it this way. There's a little, it's, you know, with the hand on the ground, but that is a great hack that has had, I mean, just, and that kind of, I fell into honestly, because I was working with somebody who was in this stage of like, so scared to move, so scared to do this. And everything was like, Oh, but that hurts.

Oh. And I just was like, I need to override some of this. So I said, let's try this, grab that thing that you had. And we just, you know, she just literally was doing a small movement. Um, and she now does that every single day only for, you know, a minute or two, but it's just that why? Because something a little different that you're holding for a lever is going to light up some proprioceptors, which again, we, you know, we know that are either really delayed and firing.

I say they're like [01:00:00] on low volume, you can't even hear them and we just need to volume them up. And then, then all of a sudden your brain starts responding to that. So I think. Doing things on the floor and having a little bit of weight in your hand for some things, um, is, can be amazing and not down because a lot of hypermobility have like the slopey shoulders.

It's really, you want to be out at 90 degrees or up at a diagonal and doing some small circles there. So you're actually taking the Strain out of that, it's called lengthen strain out of the neck. And what we're trying to turn on is all the muscles that help cuff the shoulder. They're called the rotator cuff muscles, but also some of the muscles, um, um, within the scapula 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: itself.

That's fascinating. So do you think that's, I mean, I guess you kind of said that, but the, so the arm is just feeling enough different. 

Lara Heimann: Yeah. So if you took, Linda, like you're rubbing your, I think it's your right side, whatever side that is. Yeah, it's my right side. Yeah. If you took [01:01:00] your arm and your right arm out to the side and kind of took that Right now it has a, like a long strain to it and you lifted it up.

I just have a coffee cup and you're just trying to think of getting really tall and doing some small circles, really small. And can you get, get it up to 90 degrees, like straight out to the side? So yeah. Is that okay? Yeah. And then do small 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: circles. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Wow. 

Lara Heimann: Yeah. And it, right. It doesn't, it can be a coffee cup.

It doesn't have to be, it's just something of density and low, a tiny load that changes that awareness. And then we want kind of all this being like, Oh, this is straight. This isn't going to be strained. We're going to work on the shoulder. Yeah. So that's, that is a hack that I have taught, you know, because you're not alone.

The shoulders get really slopey and the neck, and then it's becomes this whole thing. So just trying to bypass that a little bit. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Okay. That is a hypermobility hack that I am [01:02:00] going to start working on immediately. So thank you. And then report back and let me know. I will. I will. For sure. Definitely. So, um, thank you so much, Laura, for joining me today.

I really have just enjoyed so much learning from you. And, um, before we go, I would love to know what you're up to in terms of if you have any special projects you're working on and also where people can learn more about you. 

Lara Heimann: The best place to find out all of the above is go to our website, which if you type in Lit Yoga or Lit Method, either one of those.

Um, my Instagram is laura. hyman. We are kind of constantly we're looking at where we can get our tentacles. There's so many areas beyond just the yoga world. We're getting, um, helping other movement professionals getting into corporate settings. Um, we have teacher trainings always. We now have both a guided and a, and a self guided, um, online teacher training.

But we're also doing many courses for [01:03:00] all movement professionals. So the one that's out right now is called the triple S it's called, you know, improve your posture, but it's like, what is the triple S and why is that? I'm so important. There's a lecture in a lab and it's really dialed down to, you know, my, my, you know, 10 year old niece could listen to it and, and understand it's, it's really not.

I mean, I always use anatomical stuff, but so we have some of those, we have a retreat in Greece for longevity. So really working on all of these elements. That's October 9th through 16th or 15th. It's a week. Yeah. And I'm doing that with another physical therapist. So we'll be doing all the lit kind of yoga stuff, but then we're bringing in some myofascial and mobility things.

Uh, so for all. For all 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: types. Okay. And lit is L Y T, correct? So like the website, 

Lara Heimann: it stands, it's an acronym. That's Laura's yoga technique, but I didn't want my name in it. [01:04:00] And so, but I always talk about like when we feel really aligned and we're moving well, we feel lit up. And that's really what we're going for is this kind of energy of light that we all have.

And And we know when we feel dim and we know when we feel really bright in our spirit. And that's very much linked with our body and how we move because it's all, it's a holistic being. It's, we don't just have our kind of mind, our brain, our body, they're all inter, um, woven. So when that, when they're getting, yeah, when they're functioning well.

Um, together we feel really lit up. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah. That's, that's great. And you had mentioned a while back about, uh, with young children and babies and how the movement informs the brain and the brain informs the movement and how important that connection is. But that's lifelong, right? So it's. Lifelong. Yes. Yeah.

Lara Heimann: And the thing is that, um, people really need, like, that happens in our early stages and we continue to be very curious with our movement, [01:05:00] most of us as children. And then after we get to school and, and start not moving as much and not having as much movement variability, we have to purposely start to kind of bring that back in for the neuroplasticity to continue throughout our life.

So it's gotta be. There's got to be an intention, effort put into that because it's not, um, you know, it's not like when we were kids where it was just like, we were going all over and exploring. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah. Yeah. And thank God for neuroplasticity. I mean, that's so important. The ability of the nervous system to change throughout our lives.

Cause we used to think that that stopped pretty much at age 25. Right. And now we know that's not true. Yeah. 

Lara Heimann: Not true at all. Not true. We just need more. Intention behind it, but it's always available to us, which is incredible. Yeah. Yeah. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Well, thank you again so very much, Laura. I really just enjoyed chatting with you and, uh, I know, I know everyone's going to really enjoy listening to this episode.

Lara Heimann: Thank you so much, Linda. It's [01:06:00] always wonderful to just see you and hear from you and I love what you're doing. So it's an honor to be on here. Oh, thank 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: you.

Wow. That was such a great conversation with Laura Hyman and I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. I know that yoga is such an interesting topic for people with hypermobility. As she said, we can be so good at it. But we have to work even harder at it in order to be doing it correctly. So thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Bendy Bodies with a Hypermobility MD podcast.

You can help us spread the word about joint hypermobility and related conditions by sharing this podcast and leaving us a review. This really helps to raise awareness hypermobility. these complex and frequently missed conditions. You can also find me, Dr. Linda Blustein on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and LinkedIn at hypermobilityMD.

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